1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Post Daedalus Fall List Talk

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by borings, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    996
    Alrighty lets try and break this done sequentially. I've noticed many people seem to have a very negative view of BS11 units no matter what else they seem to be equipped with.

    The main targets of the Grief should 100% be as I mentioned Camo troops. That being said, if for some reason the Greif finds itself having to fight up against a bolt I think you're undervaluing how effective it will be. Here is BSG Bolt Vs. Combi Rifle Mimetism Greif within 6" and both in cover. I will note of course that this is the optimal expected position for the the bolt.

    [​IMG]


    I'm not really sure why Move 4-4 is considered bad here. Its quite fast over all and when combined with FD2 it could take as little as 2 orders to get the Greif across the midfield and to your opponent's deployment zone. If the Greif was 4-2 or the Igao/Clipsos was 6-2 or faster I could understand the complaint.

    The clipsos is certainly good but the tools the Greif brings give it some really solid ground against camo. Check out how the Clipsos compares to a Greif when fighting something like the zero. It takes Surprise Shot AND TO to get close to the Greif. And ultimatley if your Clipsos is your button pusher is this where you want to be risking your resources?

    Greif vs. Zero
    [​IMG]

    Clipsos Vs. Zero
    [​IMG]

    You're right a Greif going second will have an issue compared to the clipsos. However when going second the Greif doesn't need to deploy as aggressively. Deploy 8 Inches up with nothing to cover your ass and yeah the Greif is left swinging in the wind but that's true of many troops. You still have lots of options in how you deploy and position.

    I haven't had the chance to try it with the Greif specifically but with some clever support you do have the potential to bait in enemy camo troops quite effectively. Get them coming in to try and clear the threat while they have decent options and then drop a few HD Clipsos shots out of nowhere on them.


    I think the Igao is one of the best units Tohaa has and use it quite regularly.

    This a good question. I wasn't sure so I started running some numbers back and forth to see if I could figure out where the Greif does and doesn't want to run into 5mans.

    Against general line troops with Combis in a 5 man the Greif is about a 50/50 on either one winning.

    Against stuff like a Sniper if you can get in that 0 range band its about the same.

    One of the more interesting things is that the Greif doesn't actually suffer a terrible fate at all against things like the Kamau MSR or the Dakini link.

    So In general yeah a 5 man isn't going to be your main target. But if you roll up, smack a TR bot in the face then turn and take a 50/50 on breaking that Kamau MSR? Sounds like a nice little investment to me.

    Well as I discussed you're actually pretty good against a unit like a bolt and a bolt is a lot better shooter than plenty of backfield troops.

    Here is a Greif Surprise shooting a Q-Dron HMG within 8" with both in cover. Looks like a solid win for the Greif to me. There is an argument to be made that if your opponent expects the Greif they may deploy in such a way that an attack run like this is impossible. I can't deny that but if 21pts and 1 swc make you completely change the way you deploy. I think I'm ok with that.
    [​IMG]
     
    wendigo, csjarrat, nehemiah and 8 others like this.
  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    That's a really good post.
     
  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    1,466
    Should we really be surprised that you can outshoot a BS11 unit if you get in its -3 range?

    For what it's worth, a Kiiutan has very similar outcomes, 2% worse chance to wound, 5% worse chance to be wounded once, but also can shrug off that wound, and BS12 2W is better against the vast majority of targets hanging around in a DZ than BS11 MSV1 1W.

    The Greif isn't bad in general, it's just very poor compared to a Kiiutan for the point and SWC investment.
     
    Abrilete and Ben Kenobi like this.
  4. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    345
    Nobody is realistically arguing that the grief is better I think. But that it's okay for its points.
    Swc is a bit fickle but a 9 point upgrade for a kitten is non negligible. For example that 9 points could upgrade a kamael to a kerail which has a much greater impact on your list than the wound and bs of the impersonators.
     
  5. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    629
    Likes Received:
    996
    Not overly for sure. But the Greif has a nice advantage over Camo in that it can just start off in the ideal place to do it.

    I can see the argument that the Kiiutan is a better cheerleader killer but Im not convinced that means the Greif is a bad investment. It also has a secondary role as a camo hunter that nothing else really directly fills in tohaa.
     
    borings and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  6. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2018
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    147
    I am currently brewing for Hunting Party an came up with this:

    Hunting Party 1.0
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]4
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 28)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    CLIPSOS Minelayer Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)

    4 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    When I was first building the list, it had two Kriigel Agents in it, until Army told me to go look at the AVA. Said.

    Plan A is getting the Kriigel with eclipse smoke into the ZoC of the enemy lieutnant in order to isolate it with Pheroware:Eraser.
    As a backup, there's a Gao Rael with adhesive launcher and the good old Sukeul HMG.

    I'd love to pick up a Draal in this list, but I ain't gonna give my opponent any specialists to target.

    What do you guys think of it?
    I'd be particularly interested in @borings thoughts, since he kind if inspired me here.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  7. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    356
    Looks pretty good for hunting party to me
     
  8. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    388
    Seems pretty solid. Id rather run a triple makaul and sukeul/kriigel/makaul group, but that might just be me. Ive had the most success with the kriigel by dragging it upfield with an agressive team, and leaving it tucked behind a wall for eraser aros. I cant be happier about the kriigel. I think you could run a draal and just drop dazers, to make a honeypot target that is really just a waste of orders. I mena, if you really wanna. It seems fine without one. I think the one suggestion i would have is that you might want to run a greif operator impersonator over the clipsos. I would say it would depend on what kinda terrain you would see. Like if you can put the grief op on top of a building looking into yer ooponents dz, its better at killing than the clipsos.
     
    OrderMonkey likes this.
  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Beginning to hone in on our big mid-year event. I was thinking about Combined for a long time in the run up but my lists were finding exactly zero middle gears between 'Sheshkiin kills the Marvel Universe' and just eating all the dirt in the world. So to try to level out that performance I've been back with Tohaa for the last week and a half just trying out new stuff.

    This is a current contender and I think it's got a lot of potential:

    Upgunned
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1 | 40)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    LIBERTO Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    NIKOUL Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 1 Surda SymbioBeast / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    I also wrote this as homage to @borings and I think I hate how viable it looks. Borings, if you read this, would you change anything about this list? (I think the groups could use some work if nothing else)

    Oppa Borings Style
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]3
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1 | 40)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    NIKOUL Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    4 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  10. Thaddius

    Thaddius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    368
    I've tried the Tohaa impersonators and struggled with how to use them going 2nd other than turtling with them which maybe that's what they need to be. They don't have the LSG of a Fiday though so they become different pieces in the mid field. Much more defensive. The Grief operator can camo hunt though and can be more order efficient than bringing up DTW's though the impersonation profile is much less survivable.

    I like the potential they bring though I feel like you really want to go first with them or I'd be tempted to bring clipsos/FD2 Grief operators to fill other roles
     
    Abrilete and RobertShepherd like this.
  11. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    I ran the Kiuutan in a game against Spiral Corps (perhaps ironically) yesterday and he got into position to take down the enemy Taagma core-linked MSV2 sniper by engaging it at ~10 and catching it out of cover. Then he blew out a Greif that had been reserve dropped to counter-deploy him, took a wound trying to fight a shotgun, dropped into suppressive, and died next turn.

    I think it was basically pretty worthwhile but I also have a similar feel where I don't know what I'd have done with him if I'd gone second. We were playing Armoury so I brought him assume I'd want the reliable cross-board infiltration, but by the same token there were not a lot of good defensive places to put him if I'd gone second.
     
    Abrilete, ChoTimberwolf and Thaddius like this.
  12. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    333
    I only really find the tohaa impersonators an overly poor choice on exclusion boards. They really rely on being able to deny attacks via deployment if going second, and have had a few games where the dead zone was entirely bare.

    Paying 21 points to attack something reliably on the first turn, even if that attack is less than spectacular, is a good deal when the trooper can switch into infiltrator hunting mode if going second.

    The 30 point one I'm finding harder to justify these days. Really feels like something you want to deploy markerless with a bomb, but that is so telegraphed that its hard to connect effectively with it.
     
  13. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    388
    i'm glad yer trying out a list based on my ideas, but with yer own twists in there. i think people should play with what they like and know, but having deep order pools is also hella good. like, i know you love the nikoul/draal interaction, and i like seeing it in there. i think the only thing i would change in the second list would be to find a way to put a kriigel in the link with the sukeul. easiest way i see would be to drop the libertos, and change the makaul in the sukeul link to a kriigel. you would also have to change the makaul in the link with taagma/kaeltar to a kamael, but the makaul in that link is really just there as an "oh crap you got past everyone else" anyways right? i know i've been a huge fanboy for kriigel lately, but i think if you run a sukeul/kriigel/makaul fireteam in a list like this you will see what i'm getting at. like, that is a hella aggressive triad, and will let you accomplish all the same things that a sukeul/makaul/makaul would let you do, but also offers good defense against template users and cc fighters in the form of the eraser aro.

    as for group composition, i prefer having the kaauri in the group that is most likely to have 10 orders on turn one, because i really like to spend one or two coordinated orders on them moving and then going into suppressive fire. Second priority would be to have them in the group that is more likely going to need to use them after the main triad falls apart. the first group has the kaeltar triad as backup, which will prolly want to come out and push buttons in the lategame, whereas the second group only has the nikoul. personally i have found the nikoul to be a guy i dont spend a lot of orders on, so i think the kaauri should group with them. i think the next consideration would be which of the two main triads do you think is going to fall apart first. if you follow my suggestion, and make room for a kriigel/sukeul/makaul, they will most likely last until turn two or three, whereas the draal/makaul/makaul team is prolly running out and getting the opponent angry enough to hunt them down. you should prolly plan on one of those two triads being dead at the start of your second turn; whichever triad you think that is most likely to be should be the triad in group two with the nikouls and kaauris, so that you have a second wave to bring up. the chaksas are the best baggage guys, but things are usually pretty dire before they bother walking out of wherever they start the game.
     
    RobertShepherd and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Small event on the weekend, I had a bye in the first round and played the subsequent two games.

    I played this list in Armory against a Shasvastii player:

    Upgunned Kriigel
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1 | 40)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 2 Surda SymbioBeasts / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Overall I was really happy with how this one performed. Some tinkering to do but the Kriigel in particular felt very impressive and being able to combine white noise with the Sukeul's HMG to engage the enemy Gwailos and gun him down was impressive. He also managed a tasty double isolate with a single order, which... was irrelevant because in my next order the Draal just gunned both enemy models down anyway. But then he followed up with a solo run toward the enemy DZ to isolate the chain of command caliban that had picked up command of the force. Offensive use of Eraser is something that needs to be done carefully because it's very easy to put lots of enemies in isolation but not actually kill anything, but it seems well worth considering for surgical strikes.



    I played this in game three against a Spiral Corps player in Engineering Deck:

    Upgunned Clipsos
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    DRAAL (Minelayer) AP Marksman Rifle, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1 | 40)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    KERAIL PRECEPTOR Submachine Gun, Smoke Grenades + 2 Surda SymbioBeasts / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] SURDA SYMBIOBEAST Pulzar / Viral CCW. (0 | 8)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CLIPSOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The plan was to use the Clipsos for sneaky late-game objective taking or for a first turn alpha if I went first, but I ended up taking a big gamble after my opponent won the roll and picked deployment by taking second turn anyway and the whole game went weird and sideways from there, because that's what Spiral does. I managed to totally blank my opponent's turn one offense by just hiding (and with some good dodged by the Draal against enemy symbiobeast pulzars). Most of the rest of the game was me trying to claw out an offence through Helots and Dazer Zones and multiple Stratusclouds. I got over the line in the end, but victory at the close was ensured only by my Draal link just running heedlessly into his thoroughly defended objective room just getting jammed one at a time until the Draal finally got over the line to contest the room, netting me a minor win from the antennas.


    Edit: it just occured to me that in literally both the above lists, the Draal could have been a Sukeul HMG and a Diplomatic Delegate. Hrmmm.
     
    #114 RobertShepherd, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  15. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    388
    i think for both armory and engineering deck, a draal with dazers would be about a million times better
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    In armoury I think I agree, although it can depend on table. In engineering deck it's a bit mixed. The room in engineering deck needs to be secured rather than dominated, which means it can be contested by any single model - as noted I played against a dazer in the room in my own game and was able to just bum-rush it to deny my opponent the points.

    This was a variant I was considering, although I'm kind of missing the preceptor:

    Upgunned Kriigel
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    KAMAEL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    DIPLOMATIC DELEGATE (iKohl L1, Specialist Operative) Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    GAO-RAEL Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 33)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The Draal is basically intended to operate unlinked and go be a pain, drop into suppresive, etc. I'm not totally convinced she's better than a preceptor with two cats, except that she's a specialist in a list otherwise light on specialists.

    Bit of a test-bed honestly. But interesting.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  17. Saitan247

    Saitan247 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hi guys,

    this is my first try for next weekend. @borings thank you, you influenced the list building a lot. :)

    Due to my meta I think MSV 2 is crucial... One rule question, do the makauls loose the impetiousness due to being in a Triad?

    E Alpha
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]5
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 13)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    KAAURI Sentinel Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulsers, Nullifier / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 12)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    SUKEUL Lieutenant (Forward Observer) K1 Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    KRIIGEL Submachine Gun, Phero-Booster / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    MAKAUL Heavy Flamethrower, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, Viral CCW. (0 | 13)
    KAELTAR (Chain of Command) Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse + 2 SymbioMates / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 21)
    GAO-RAEL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 31)
    TAAGMA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    CHAKSA AUXILIAR (Baggage, Sensor) Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 10)
    1.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    Please let me know your thoughts :)

    Thx
     
    ChoTimberwolf and RobertShepherd like this.
  18. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Yes, they do.
    Link
     
    ChoTimberwolf and Saitan247 like this.
  19. Saitan247

    Saitan247 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    26
    Great thx
     
  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    1,466
    You're missing pieces that shoot things further than 16 inches away. The Sukeul FO can be upgraded to the HMG so you have at least one shooting piece for just one less order.
     
    Abrilete and ChoTimberwolf like this.