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Post-beginner review of IA

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Cannon Fodder, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I recently started IA and think I've gotten to the point where I know how the pieces work together. Here are my notes in case anyone want to get into IA. Its not a full tactica, with a unit by unit break down, but break down by key points.

    Sectoral Theme / Style : HI Limited Insertion list with extra order is main reason to play IA. While it is possible to build non Limited Insertion lists, it not their best attribute, and other sectorals do it better. With Lt L2, NCO, and Tactical awareness you should easily have 13-14 orders in an Limited insertion list. I'm going to focus my review around this premise just to keep it focused.

    Zuyong vs Shang Shi
    Both of these have similar load outs and have fireteam core potentials and should be compared side by side. At a glance the differences are:
    • Zuyong
      • 2xPistols
    • Shange Ji (+10ish Points)
      • +1 ARM
      • +3 BTS
      • Lt Flamethrower
    When comparing the 2, the Shange Shi are better models, but in the faction as a whole you have a hard time fitting in all the 'good' stuff. For the most part the Zuyong are a better choice because they're are cost effective. When comparing each of their Big Gun profiles, the Zuyong HMG (1.5/38) vs the Shang ji Spitfire (2/45) the Zuyong is cheaper in both points and SWC, while being better where it counts.

    The Zuyong are the mainstay of the faction. I would say 90% of the playable lists will have a couple of these.

    The only notable exception is the Shang Ji has an assault hacker profile, which the Zuyong don't have. I'll review hackers a bit later, along with tactical awareness, NCO and mixed fireteams.

    Light Infantry
    All the profiles are fairly generic which every faction has access to. Usually used as filler, or a defensive ARO fireteams. The only profile which should be noted is the Zhanshi Hacker profile (0.5/19) which is the cheapest basic hacking device.

    Lieutenant Options
    I'm going to focus on the the Daoying since its got Lt L2. IA has multiple NCO options, which makes the Lt L2 skill is almost mandatory. The Camo is also a nice extra to keep it safe. There are 3 profiles available. Basic (0/21), Hacker (0.5/29) & Sniper Minelayer (1.5/32). In general having a Lt Hacker is a weakness and its should be avoided, since it allows for a indirect ways of reaching you Lt. That leaves the Basic vs Sniper profiles. I've found the sniper profile beneficial late game. In the early game let your NCO use the Lt orders, then in the late game start using it. Most players are not expecting a 'new' sniper late game and this often catches players unexpectedly. Also the Minelayer adds a second Camo marker to help protect the Lt. After a bit of experience opponents will figure out that the LT is a camo marker which is a target.

    If needed basic Daoying, is usable for the Lt L2, but if you lose the NCO trooper(s), the Lt L2 skill is going to be wasted.

    If you are not playing LT L2 & NCO in an IA force you are missing out on one of the benefits of the sectoral.

    NCO
    There are 2 NCO troops. Tai Sheng & the Mowang. Both are solid options, and all lists should have at least 1 NCO model. Both are good, but have different roles.

    Tai Sheng is named Zuyong and can join their fire teams. This is the main reason to select him as the NCO. Being able to use your Lt order on you fireteam is a great way to move the bulk of you force. The Tinbot profile is tempting, but it's a skill readily available in the IA fireteams. While the Mk12 profile is 0 SWC and offer a better range bands. Both of these profiles come with optional Chain of Command, which a solid suggestion if you think your opponent is playing a list that is capable of reaching you Lt.

    Mowang is what an Heavy Infantry considers real Heavy Infantry. The Mowang can't join any fireteams, but makes for a solid Datatracker/Xenotech escort. This makes for a good use of your extra Lt orders. The Multi-rifle profile is a little lacking for the points costs, but the Red fury or Spitfire are good as for their SWC.

    Hacking
    IA is not the best at hacking. While it does have access to HD/AHD/KHD/EVO like most factions, none of them stand out on their own. Nor can they afford to play with a lot of hackers. What they do have is access to a combo that makes for arguably the best Killer Hacker in the game. By Comboing the TinbotB & the Haidao KHD in a fireteam you get the best F2F hacker out there is. Running the numbers the Haidao AROing with Redrum has a 1.5-2x better chance of dealing damage than that of the attacker. As the attacker its closer to 4x the chance. Its biggest weakness is the BTS 0. When most of your list is heavy infantry, this combo is practically an auto include.

    Air Drop / Explode LX
    IA has access to Liu Xing (AD/Explode LX/NWI). The basic boarding shotgun AD troop is always solid choice. The question with the Liu, is the always "Do I try and use explode?'. With a PH 12 AD and a Damage 12, its not that consistent of a killing tool as you would expect. Dropping it on a link team is usually not worth it because of the Sixth Sense L2, and low damage. The best use of the explode is to drop next to remotes/motorcycles that have low armor and can't dodge very well, then move into boarding shotgun range of bigger targets. If there are no easy targets it's usually better to try and walk in. The NWI and ARM 3 is what really makes Liu a force to recon with. Very persistent once up close. The other profiles are OK, but a little expensive to run more than 1 or 2. Especially since a hacker will be needed to improve their AD chances.

    Infiltrating Specialists
    For the most part, IA versions of the infiltrating specialists are expensive, and are usually missing a little something.

    Hulang Shocktroopers: While they don't infiltrate, they do have Forward Deployment L2 which is why I'm including them here. Compared to other MA infiltrating models there are tougher, and have Mono-filament blades... BUT they are missing the ability to drop smoke or go into a marker state. This makes them a little harder to use. They do have Stealth (granted from MA), but will have to use the terrain to get to the target discreetly. One benefit is that it can Duo, giving them 2B MA L3 in CC.

    Zhencha: HI with Camo gives it the ability to grab objectives relatively easily. The weapons load outs are very short ranges (0-8) for an HI. The only exception to this is the DEP profile which has limited ammo.

    Liu Xing: While not an infiltration or forward deployment model, the AD does give the option to reach objectives quickly. It has a better BS than either of the other options, usually cheaper, and have better range bands. The penalty is that it has to role for the AD, and then doesn't have any camo/mimitism.

    Smoke / MSV
    Very simply... IA doesn't have smoke.

    The MSV2 options to counter the smoke are the Rui Shi spitfire remote, or the Haidao Sniper. Both have their uses. The Sniper offers better range, but the Rui Shi is cheaper and more mobile with the ability to go into suppressing fire.

    Fireteams
    Options... Lots of options... Too many to really explain here. the best fireteams for the faction leverages Tactical awareness for extra orders. Here is the short version.

    - HI Fireteam Core: Zuyong core is the best because its cost effective. Try to include 2 tactical awareness models, one Haidao KHD, Tinbot B profile, and preferably Tai Sheng for NCO. This will give you 4 extra orders for the link, and defense against hackers.

    - HI Haris: Zuyong Harris & Haidao KHD make for a solid start to Haris. From there you can add multiple options, the ones below are the most notable:
    • Zuyong HMG for a big gun and a total 2 Tactical awareness orders
    • Tai Sheng for a good (Mk12) and NCO & 1 Tactical awareness order
    • Yan Huo for 3B with a Missile Launcher (BS 14) & 1 Tactical awareness order
    Note: The Yan Huo HMG can join a Haris, but for 1 point more you can get the HRMC which has better ammo and the same burst as the HMG in harris.

    - Fire Team DUO:
    • Zuyong HMG can Duo, and can be mixed with one of the many wildcards or any Shang JI
    • Shang JI
    • Mowang
    • Hulang Shocktroopers:
    • Yan Huo
    Misc:
    • Lu Dong has HoloEcho L2 which lets it hide as multiple other models. This can be used to impersonate a Rui Shi. This may slow down smoke models. Also if playing 2 Lu Duan & 2x Rui Shi your courtesy list can have 8x Rui Shi which is intimidating to your opponent.
    • Hac Tao is a TO camo very HI. With the TO Camo its probably more powerful than a TAG. The Executive Order ability makes it you Lt.
    • Mowang has the ability to be your Lt. The benefit of this is that this reduces the cost of the Mowang. Unfortunately this is somewhat open Information since the LT profile loses NCO and advance players who know the sectoral may spot this. This can be used on conjunction with Executive Order as a head game for advanced players.
     
  2. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Very good write up. Though I know most of this myself (at least, I thought so;-), it is good to see the knowledge in a organised format and it is a useful reminder.

    My main "fear" for IA is, that you will basically have a Zuyong Fireteam and put some other toys, depending on the mission. Not that is true for most sectorials, but here your choices are limited due to the high point cost. This could lead to boring feeling.

    Shang Ji are still a bit disapointing in my opinion, because I see no good reason, to fit in one of these pricy guys. One point in ARM and the better BTS are not realy an argument. Doing a dodge two points better can be a thing. That leaves the weapon options. As you pointed out, the Zuyong HMG is more cost-efficent than the Shang Ji spitfire or the HRL (wich is unique, but not available), what leaves the Combi-LF, they lack something special. BS 14 maybe or a visor option for example.

    I think the Moawang is indeed a good alternative Lt. Choice. He needs a back up with CoC. If you want to play the mind game with Hac Tao, it will be very pricy.

    Edith says: The Daoying Hacker has not much to fear, because she can hack and recamo for fairydust for example. I prefer the hacking option over the sniper, but I used both with good effect.
     
    #2 archon, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  3. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I think you underestimate the Daoying hacker. If you're likely to just leave your Lt. in camo and harvest the orders via NCO, having the hacker around for emergencies is nice. So is being able to buff your chances with AD (especially with Explode), or drop Fairy Dust if you really need to. You can pop out, run Supportware, and recamo without using main pool orders- nice.
     
  4. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    On a separate note, I faced a fellow who was one of the IA playtesters at the European Infinity Challenge. At 400 points with me playing vanilla Nomads, he still kicked my teeth in (well, it was down to the last order but he manged to get 2-7 or so).

    A Haris with Tai Sheng, a tinbot guy (I think?), and a Zuyong HMG was his main offensive tool, as well as a Liu Xing and a Zencha on the other side of the map. I would never have thought the Haris would have so much punch, but it really does. A full aggressive link is not needed there, and it leaves lots of points for your other troops, defense, etc.
     
  5. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the write-up! However, I think the Zuyong vs. Shang Ji debate is a lot more nuanced than you have presented here. Shang Ji have +3 CC, +2 PH, +1 ARM, and +3 BTS over their Zuyong brethren. The HRL+LSG profile is extremely versatile and should not be discounted in consideration, especially in light of Wildcard.

    Wildcard is a big deal. It means, among other things, Shang Ji can head up a fireteam of Zhanshi, which gives full fireteam bonuses for far less commitment than a Zuyong Core. Even with Wildcard filler (Haidao and Pangguling), a Zuyong Core will run 135+ points, while you can get Shang Ji + 4 Zhanshi for as little as 95. The Shang Ji + Haidao + 3 Zhanshi Core should not be underestimated, as it offers high-quality HI firepower without the cost of HI link filler.

    Shang Ji can also perform a couple other fun tricks, like forming a Duo of Shang Ji Tinbot + Haidao KHD, which provides a tinbot-protected KHD while leaving your Core and Haris options open and without using any SWC. You can use a similar trick by forming a Shang Ji AHD + Zuyong Tinbot // Tai Sheng Tinbot Duo, if you'd prefer to have more options against non-hackers.

    I would give the Shang Ji more consideration before dismissing it as simply inferior to the Zuyong. It's a potent role-player in IA and ignoring it will limit your options.
     
  6. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I'll honest, I'm expecting it. I picked up the DBS sectoral which has 19 profile types and it got old quickly, and had to expand to Ikari to keep it interesting. IA has 24 profiles, which will give It more longevity. Also it has options no other sectoral can duplicate.
     
  7. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Yup, I can definitely second that. The Daoying hacker LT is probably one of my favourite new additions to YJ. A fantasic model and so much utility in a neat little package that makes the rest of your force stronger, bei it AD, a Rui Shi or your HI.
     
    Savnock likes this.
  8. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    The lack of models aside, they are simply too expensive in a costly sectorial. In a defensive Zhanshi the Hualong Sniper is more effective than a HRL, even the later has some nice extras like a template and fire ammo. Putting both in the link, will be pricey and limit your other options.

    The better stats are of little use in a link. Most important: You not shoot better than the Zuyong. Your chance for dodge is better and that is the only stat, that might be useful if attacked be DTW or Deployables. The better CC and the shock weapons looks good - if you want to go close and personal with a Fusilier, to be honest, it is situational at best. The give not much useful for the higher price. The Haris profiles for example are nearly 10 pts more expensive than their Zuyong counterpart. For the menitoned stats and LFT. They need a little rework, or the stay niche in IA, not to speak of vanilla YJ.
     
  9. Proletarian

    Proletarian Active Member

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    I feel like everyone is heading straight to the Zuyong core as if its the only thing the sectorial can do which I think is a bit of a fallacy. I've been having alot of success with the Zhanshi core which let's you get alot of value out of the other 5 models in your list. For instance:

    [​IMG] List 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    [​IMG] HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] MÓWÁNG (NCO) Spitfire, Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  10. KestrelM1

    KestrelM1 Well-Known Member

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    My post has multiple examples of them being cheaper than equivalent Zuyong setups. The "too expensive" complaint is extremely short-sighted and ignores the practical applications of Wildcard.
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    That Haidao sniper really makes the Zanshi link. He's tough but not immortal- I've gunned him down with an Intruder HMG in a straight shootout, despite losing my camo to the visor (had few other options). But he makes them a really excellent defensive setup.

    The one downside is that lists with a full Zanshi core link tend to be more than one combat group.
     
  12. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    I used Zhanshi core at recent ITS, and had quite a fun TBH.
     
  13. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I find the Zuyong core is the first thing people should try when playing IA, it leverages the order benefits of IA the best. As a player gets the hang of the troops moving away form it to more solos, and haris teams for a change of pace. A Zhanshi fireteam core is a decent ARO platform if you want to try things like the Yan Huo or Hac Tao and you need cheap orders. But lets be honest, the Zhanshi fireteam is fairly generic and virtually every sectoral has access to what they bring. I find their SWC costs a little on the high side when paired withe the rest of the faction. 1.5 SWC MSR is a bit much when you have so many other big guys. Normal Snipers an HRL are SWC cheaper.

    When comparing the Zhanshi fireteam to a single Yan Huo ML, the Yan Hou has the same B and BS as a Zhanshi with a 5 Man link. The benefit is that you get multi wound and armor. If Taking a Yan Huo you will most likely need a couple Zhanshi chear leaders, but they shoudl be hidden in back and not ARO and just cheer. Otherwise they are a weakness.
     
  14. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I like the write-up but I disagree with the Haidao KHD being auto-include. So far the MSV2 Sniper have been performing much better and for the most part, hackers aren't a problem anyways because annoying shit like Jammers and various E/M weaponry have been a far more relevant factor for my games than anything else really. The MSV2 on the other hand, ALWAYS performs for me.
     
  15. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    I like the KHD because it has the hacker bonus for some objectives and a boarding shotgun when the link switch to CQB brawl. But I can always push button with Taï sheng, or include a zuyong with shotgun in my fireteam, while the haidao sniper is one of a kind and simply brutal.
     
  16. slaine

    slaine New Member

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    my last 300pt-Play with the Mission "Unmasking" i had this as my Killer- and Multitool-Link:

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    5 SWC | 192 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    quite funny but nerve-racking due to high Point cost :cold_sweat:
     
  17. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    What did you do with the remaining 108 points?
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's going to be very meta-dependent.
     
  19. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    There is always going to be a bit of meta, tweaking any list building strategy. The KHD is going to be a waste against Arianna or Tohaa. But if list building for tournament I'm going to always plan for my opponent having hackers. When making a write up in general for a faction, you have to generalize a little.
     
  20. slaine

    slaine New Member

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    This:
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)

    0 SWC | 108 Points

    Open in Infinity Army