I have straight up been avoiding the Pango for the core links, as a starting member at least. It's defensive Haris filler IMO or for replenishing links to get them up to strength again.
If only the sectorial's noob-toob HI also were available in TA form... It's hard to justify taking them as it is, and their low burst means that they were already a difficult prospect for me to bring along. In fact, if only the Shang-Ji noob-toob was the one with TA instead of the Spitfire, that'd lead to an immediately viable Shang-Ji profile.
Don'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongsDon'tmakethemjustoverlyexpensiveZuyongs- *Book releases and they're just overly expensive Zuyongs* Goddammit CB you had one job!
Agreed! Though that'd give my standard IA setup one additional order, 15 regular orders in a single combat group.
While I agree on the Shang Ji and Guijia, i'm not going to let it bother me because by what they've done I'm not going to be taking them. Everything else is good enough that they are not needed. To me the Guijia is fine for the points, it's just boring. Something not game changing to could have been added to make him "interesting". Duo, Sensor, Martial Arts Level 1, etc. Any one of those things. Shang Ji is disappointing. enough said. I need to work with what I have, not what I want.
@Space Ranger what Guijia? This sectorial is kind of interesting and good, but it doesn't have access to the Guijia. If it had, I would simply have to delude myself that it didn't have such an obvious oversight and design flaw, but I am glad I don't have to engage in self-delusions.
I don't understand. I'm talking about the one and only TAG that Yu Jing and IA has access to. I just checked and I spelled it correctly.
YMMV, as I personally don't think the Liu Xing is awesome at all, and the jury is still out about the Zencha
I consider the Guijia too maligned with the sectorial to work well, so I live in denial it exists. Denial is a warm fluffy place.
NWI AD troops are great, in my opinion. Why do you find them lacking, especially compared to normal 1-wound drop troops? A multi-wound or NWI AD trooper with a boarding shotgun equals at least 3 dead rear-line troopers for the opponent, in my experience. From Raoul to Fractaa they are nasty tools. With Explode to help pick off at least one responder (especially warband troops), they're even better. I'd put this guy just a notch below Raoul for sheer backfield rampage ability.
Because, as has been said repeatedly, the problem is the model is vulnerable to hacking in a faction that can't project hacking threats to create space for said model to attack with its abilities. Trying to get aggressive into DZs that are littered with repeaters is problematic. If the Liu Xing belonged to say, Nomads or Aleph, who can pretty reliably toss a pitcher a long distance to pick off an offending hacker, it would actually stand a chance of functioning how you want it to. For Yu Jing it's essentially a like owning a missile but having the equivalent of a completely outdated aircraft to launch it from. It looks pretty destructive but you can't actually do much with it. The statline isn't the problem. It doesn't synergise with the faction to overcome the extra weaknesses its been burdened with over the existing multiwound AD troopers.
Then your option is not to do that. He has options to to not go near those things or even come on from the sides. Also if going against some armies it's a non-issue. I've only used him once and so far and the thing I didn't like his his poor PH. I failed my landing and fortunately landed somewhere he wasn't immediately killed. He later was shot in the back and killed by a Doctari! I plan on at least trying him a couple more times because no matter how things look on paper, it's not the same when you actually try it out, good or bad.
Now you're paying for a model who's purpose is hyper aggression, who is incapable of being hyper aggressive because he lacks the support to behave as such. Which comes back to it's a dud unit for Yu Jing because it doesn't function as intended due to inbuilt weaknesses the faction does not address for him. You're correct it's an "option". It also happens to be a really shit option when the costs are factored in. The profiles aren't cheap for the equipment you get. This isn't warmachine. You build lists to tackle missions not armies.
The Liu Xiu in concret and Combat Jump troops in general have more uses that hiperagression in the first round. You can save it fpr mid late game to surprise or use it tp flank an enemy model that pushed to far. For me a CJ is more to clean weak models than strong ones (thats why i prefer 2 wounds aka 2 critics in front of mimetism) You don't like it, okey but it have more optiins. For me it works far better on vanilla, for order pool and ninja kanren KHD(probably your meta is stronger in hacking than mine)
Um, I'm not sure I agree that you build lists to tackle missions instead of armies. Your opponent's army is a key component of a mission and the most likely reason for you to not get 10/10. Sectorials in general are inherently weaker simply because there are more assumptions about lists to be made so you can specifically pick a list with more hackers versus IA or more sensor versus Ariadna sub-types or more MSV versus Aleph, and so on. That it's not Warmachine, I agree on wholeheartedly. There's no ten-fold synergy and clockwork unit activation sequencing with multiple hard-counters to consider.
I think you made my point there in the last line. You made your force for whatever mission and you go up against Ariadna. Non-issue. Go ahead and blow some guys up. I just want to ask if you've actually tried it? I'm only going to base things on what I've actually tried. No what I think looks bad on paper. I've proven myself wrong on many things on stuff I've actually tried. I've also confirmed things. But at least I tested it. So far with the one time I've used it, it did't impress me but that's only once and I flubbed the jump roll. I want to try him at least 2 more times before I think of it as good or bad. Edit: just to note, I'm taking him in Vanilla, not IA.
I consider trying to play for a 10/10 a failed mindset. You play for a 5+ over your opponent. 10/10 is only going to happen if you get some extreme luck or your opponent sucks hard. If you go into an evenly matched game trying to do absolutely everything you're going to only screw yourself over by overextending and trying to do too much at once. I don't need to play the Liu Xing to understand the thing has major inherent issues with hacking. My opponents like to poke fun at the Tigers getting Crit saying that wouldn't have mattered if it was a Liu Xing, to which I've always had the opportunity to point out the Tiger is operating in a hacking zone and if it was a Liu Xing it couldn't have even begun to do anything because it's hackable. I actually lost tonight because I was paying 0 attention to my own hacking threats and let a Garuda drop into my lines and murder my all my shit before remembering "Oh yeah, I put a Pango there to back up the mad traps for that exact reason." AD troops frequently need to get under hacking umbrellas ahead of the main force to get work done. Even crap tier hacking armies like Yu Jing pack enough repeater coverage to make it an issue. I had 3 repeaters and a hacker, and that hacker's purpose was to buff remotes not hack stuff and had I been paying attention, would've shut down the Garuda. But that's what I get for deploying the Zhanshi under a bridge and forgetting he existed. It'll get table time eventually once the model is finished, but I'm in no hurry to proxy garbage. You don't build the list with the idea "yeah, gonna drop this into Ariadna." So either you're writing your lists to fight certain people, which isn't a realistic expectation to be allowed to do, or you're gambling that you constantly get to run into people with no hacking presence at the same time on a mission that favours the particular list you've written, which is wishful thinking at best.
@Triumph : Play a unit before you condemn it virulently. Theoryhammer is fine, but should be disclaimed at the very least, and if used to then insult the designers, preferrably kept to yourself entirely. Solid point. One I have had to learn the hard way in the last year, playing lower-order-count forces especially. Back on actual tactical considerations: The Liu Xing is able to force a choice on a hacker to either Hack Transport (first before all other options), Change Face, or hack conventionally and get hit automatically. That's a pretty serious rules advantage IMO. Sure, they're HI and thus hackable. Like others have said, either avoid the Repeaters or preferably target the hackers first. Me, I'm dropping that guy on hackers above most other targets because of the rest of the army's vulnerabilities.
What you write is very true, but it's not really addressing the points of list building. Whether your aim is to get 10/10 or winning by 5+ or merely eeking out any victory no matter the size, a key component is going to be beating your opponent. Even more so if you're playing to win rather than to score. If your list doesn't contain a way of mitigating a Speculo when you're faced with Combined, you have the pleasure of looking forward to a turn of LOL. If your list doesn't contain a way of handling several hackers and assault hackers when faced with Tunguska, your list filled with hackable elements will have a hard time moving. If you can not handle several camo markers containing specialists fuelled by lots of orders when faced with Ariadna, you may simply lose as your opponent walks around your troops. None of what helps against either of these three examples help against other two, so do build for your opposition at least as much as the mission. If anything, an opponent that has been soundly countered will not be able to resist you securing objectives. So don't get countered.
Like I said I think it's better to at least try something. Paper vs. Table helps an understanding. Also that fact that you actually have not tried it makes your word on how it works a little less reliable. I've thought many things sucked when I saw it on paper and found it's not bad or even good when I used it. How is he much different from every other infiltrating Heavy like the Daofei, Hulang, Zhencha or even Every Combat Jump hacker? Fracta, Tiger, etc. his "weakness" is about the same as others. Don't you think your friends could also forget that your Liu is hackable lol? I make my lists for the mission and then what I do with the guys depends on the force. If it's Ariadna I'll play with a bit more abandon and try to Splode some guys on the way in. If It's hacker heavy I'll be a bit more cautious and even try to eliminate the threat before he comes in.
