Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ObviousGray, Jan 16, 2019.
@ObviousGray I'm not as salty about the Zhencha anymore. What I meant was that if I was making lists for an event that was skewed towards the button missions, I'd seriously consider another faction over IA. And that's mostly because I understand my personal play style, and IA doesn't fit that play style in the context of special operations. IA does fit my playstyle in regards to direct action, however.
EDIT: And if using IA for special operations is working for you, I think that's great. As I said, I haven't put any list on the table so my opinion shouldn't carry too much weight. But I am very interested in playing IA at some point down the road.
My go-to tactic with IA for button pushing mission ATM is to push with my zuyong fireteam, kill everything on sight while i walk to the button i have to push, and then use whatever specialist i have in the team to push it (usually the haidao KHD or Tai sheng, sometimes a zuyong paramedic). And with the insane bonuses you have for pushing buttons with the right specialist this season it's actually quite order efficient!
It seems to me, at this point, that IA trades redundancy for resilience. I prefer the former when it comes to building lists geared towards pushing buttons.
The sectorial piqued my interest enough to get me to buy in. I play Nomads, vanilla mostly, and I'm still fairly new to the game with fewer than 20 games in. Instead of trying to min/max as much as possible, I looked at what I could put together for under $100 (2 starter sets, 2 blisters) to serve as an ancillary force my own use, as well as being a list for friends to use when I'm demoing games.
It comes in with decent firepower, nearly limitless options for forming and re-forming fireteams, and a respectable five specialists all in a single combat group enjoying 14 orders. It even has good protection from losing the lieutenant or fireteam leader. It's got shortcomings for sure, but I'm excited to paint it up and try it out.
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
ZÚYǑNG Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (2 | 36)
SHÀNG JÍ (Number2) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 38)
HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
ZHANSHI (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
ZHANSHI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
6 SWC | 299 Points
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Honestly, I am really starting to wish that they'd made the Zuyong into Grunt-equivalents. Or at least 1W+NWI+Shock.
A Gruntesque would be replacing Zhanshi. A proper unit at Haidao price point, however, is probably more along the lines of what the sectorial could use rather than the Shang-Ji.
If necessary to preserve the narrative, the Zuyong could be transformed lightly to a sort of quasi-premium "we cut costs compared to the old Wu Ming armour and improved it at the same time" by simply upping BTS one step.
Our club hosted a tournament today, we had about 18 people subscribe and nearly everyone turned up. I decided to play IA and although the event used Soldiers of Fortune only one of my lists took advantage of this. I went 2 wins 1 loss enjoying all my games. Last game was only lost because my opponent planned out his turn meticulously and managed not to fail a single roll with everything working out right for him. Maybe I could have done more to lock him down but I was not passing all my Wip rolls so spent 3 orders trying to push a single button with a daoying.
The IA performed well. With Soldiers of fortune available, others at the event were chucking in Yuan yuan troops with the likes of Joan but I went with Saito to really abuse that haidao multi-sniper with MSV2. (There's a really good reason why the sectorial doesn't normally have access to smoke!) My link options were flexible and there's a lot more freedom to mix up your links as you deploy so that you can move specialists about the table easily and get things where you want them.
I did not use either zencha or liu xing, they just didn't fit with what I wanted to test out and I'm really not a fan of either. Maybe I'm being too harsh on them but there's enough space in the sectorial that i don't feel forced into doing so. I ought to give the hulang some table time soon. He deserves some.
I was hoping that Zuyong would be made into Fake HI once it was shown that every new unit but the Mowang was going to be a fake HI. At least it would have been consistent.
Agreed. And about 3pts cheaper per Zuyong, which could have been reinvested in other places. I should point out that I seem to be only putting about 3-4 Zuyong into a list, so that would only be 9-12pts to put elsewhere.
I'm also still a little concerned about the survivability of the Zhencha, but I need to play them against Ariadna minespam alongside a Daofei.
Looking at zuyongs and haidaos, i'm not sure even sure there's 3pts to save by downgrading zuyongs to nwi + shock/bioimmunity.
Zuyong BSG is 26pts, haidao BSG + KHD is 26pts so 23pts with a BSG, but he loses 1PH, 3bts, 1CC, 1 breaker pistol, kinematika and ofc 1 wound in favor of zero-g, free agent and NWI+shock immunity.
If that's all true, then I really want to ask CB the same question as I did when they released their wave of 1W+NWI models: What's the fucking point?
Pretending they care about the game balance while still cheating the system with the stupid frenzy - fireteam interaction exploit, ridiculously undercosted Joan's inspiring leadership rule and giving stuff for free to knights so that they can drop more the points of that unbearable utopia that is MO. But free concessions to reduce costs in the ultimate HI sectorial army for the HI specialist faction? why bother?
Much as I agree that the points don't make sense when comparing a lot of units now and whatever the points formula is there are cheats being applied to arbitrarily skew them in favour of whatever final cost the designers want them, getting too bitter about it only ruins our own enjoyment of the game.
In spite of how expensive our units are, IA works pretty well. I'm having fun with them and most opponents seem to find them no pushover. The biggest cost factor that IA pay for is having completely regular non-impetuous troops.
I can understand fucking up the Liu Xing through it simply being a new unit and a lack of data. The Shang Ji and Guijia though? There were no excuses for those cock ups. They've been shithouse for years and CB did nothing to resolve their problems.
Like, can you imagine how shitty the Nomad players would've been if Tunguska dropped and Securitate were still total trash with none of their long standing issues resolved? That's basically what CB did with IA, it's incredibly lazy game developers regardless of the sectorial's overall power level. It's a further kick in the dick when they go and fix two other TAGs with long standing complaints in the same book.
It's really quite disappointing. The biggest single thing I was pumped for in IA was the Guijia finally being good and yet somehow
Jeez CB you took the goddamn O-Yoroi off me you could've at least fixed the one TAG I have left ya jerks especially when you rub it in and release a limited edition O-Yoroi last year.
Hey saltshakers: This hyperbole is ridiculous. And I say this as someone who agrees that Shang Ji and the Guijia could have been better.
This does not justify nerdrage. And criticism is better heard when offered with analysis, not insults.
Basically everything in the sectorial -other- than the Shang Ji and Guijia is awesome. No need to insult the designers because a couple units are just-okay.
Lore thing? Haidaos wear a light power armor. Apart the, the MO utopia? Really xD. They lost the cheap leutinent chearleader. The discount on the hospital knight don't even counter the cost of a knigh leutinent with CoC. You go without Chain of command, good luck then.
And also i think we all agree that Shang Ji and Guijia without changes was a bit sad, but they have their place on IA. Shang Ji in special give a lot in list flexibilty in IA, and counter a bit the lack of Chain Rifle Wu Ming in the pain train.
For me IA is in a far better spot to be the HI faction.
Criticism and analysis of the Shang Ji and Guijia have been made known for years. Literally.
When you spend those years refusing to acknowledge the shortcomings then the insults start getting applied, because it's not like you were paying any attention anyway and because they're apparently accurate too.
Seriously, 0 changes to the Guijia what a joke. Lazy, incompetent, or both. That's all you can say about that.
It was the lowest bar imaginable for CB to clear that and get a "good job" response and somehow they managed to screw it up. The Raicho and Guijia were clones before, all you had to do was copy them again because the Raicho buffs were good. At least then all they could be accused of would be laziness, not incompetence as well!
I repeat. All they had to do was give it a freakin' mine dispenser and it'd be good to go. If they wanted points for creativity you stick Duo on it and you've got a really cool customizable toy because of IA's wildcard options. That's it. That's all they had to do, 5 seconds of time to figure that out Jesus.
Yeah shang-jìs are okay-ish, sure you'll never play a full core/haris of them but it's not a bad unit to sprinkle here and there. The flamethrower is quite valuable as a reactive weapon in a zuyong team because even if Tai-sheng has her chain colt she's the last team member you'd use as a corner guard, NCO is way too valuable. My main issue with this ATM is that i can only have 1 shang-jì in my team, and the HRL one is usually my go-to option to replace the zuyong ML. If i could play 2 shang-jìs in my zuyong team i could see myself playing something like this:
TAI SHENG Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
SHÀNG JÍ Paramedic (Medikit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 39)
SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)
3.5 SWC | 187 Points
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Both Shang-jìs would be corner guard, with DTW or light-shotgun and superior PH/ARM/BTS they're slightly better at surviving and wasting your opponents order, while the order-generating-plus-mandatory-KHD core stays safe.
While we're talking about fireteams: Am i the only one who's straying further and further from the cheap remotes filler in my zuyong fireteam? I mean sure, they're cheap filler, so it's nice to free some points for zhenchas, hulangs and stuff like that, but they're also one hell of a weak point and kinda unwieldly. Including remotes makes it feel more like a fancy haris than a true 5-man team.