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Please redo QK

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Solar, Apr 6, 2024.

  1. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

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    We need more greatcoats with excessive collars, then. And wildparrots. Arr!
     
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  2. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well, every story is better if it has pirates, right? ;)
     
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Yeah, especially for merchant crews /s
     
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  4. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I'm loving QK as is... I personally feel like most Factions they could benefit from small quality of life improvements, but they're really fun and quite competitive as is... More new models would be nice!
     
  5. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Protector of the Search for Knowledge

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    I am hoping that QK gets an update soon. Korsans are really weird for the Sectorial. Currently, they only link with Kaplans, but have little synergy with them (6-2 and climbing plus versus just 4-4).

    Hopefully, they will make more sense in the future.
     
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  6. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    As far as I can see... the Korsan FTO are a solution in search of a problem.

    • They offer Regular link fillers for the Kaplan at a little more than half-price of the Kaplan themselves.
    • They offer a pretty robust counter-CC option for Kaplan (let's be honest, Kaplans aren't competent in CC).
    Both at the cost of switching to a Mixed Fireteam.

    Now, if one wanted to switch to Mixed to save a few points, Hafza were already there - and basic Hafza options are just a bit more expensive than cheapest Korsan option.
    Kaplan, in my eyes, are adequately effective at close ranges on their own.

    Then there's Wild Bill. I have at one point used him in a Kaplan Haris (differences between Pure and Mixed Haris aren't significant IMO), and while he was good, he was definitely a niche option: he needed to be brought into close range (Multipistols!) to be effective. Doable with Haris, not really, IMO, worth it with a Core outfitted for long-range gunfighting.
    Perhaps it would make sense to go for a Kaplan (Doc or spitfire) - Korsan - Wild Bill Haris...?


    Non-FTO Korsan are essentially a Warband that is Regular, non-Impetous, and has no Smoke.
     
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  7. tacos

    tacos Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think Korsan are kind of not that great in general. Yes they have some fantastic mobility, and yes a regular warband is very interesting for QK and Haqq as a whole, but they lack the durability and offensive punch to really get stuff done. The lack of smoke is especially crippling.

    No impet is also pretty rough for them - not just because they don't have the associated discount (consider for a moment that Diggers and Daturazi are just as expensive as Korsan), but because they don't get the impet order either. They also don't really have the toolkit to take advantage of not being impet - they don't have something like a rifle to try and take advantage of C+ to find interesting angles to take weird gunfights, they don't have any weapons or skills for doing hard ARO work.

    Maybe if they pure core'd with Kaplans, that'd be something, but honestly I'd prefer if they were given something (smoke, better weapons, impet/stuff they can use to take advantage of not being impet) so that they were worth taking in their own right.

    I think QK is in an ok spot balance wise right now, but I still think the sectorial could use an update. It's just that they have a lot of stuff that feels outdated.

    I also think that while their identity on paper of a collection of a professional navy, state sanctioned corsairs, and straight up pirates is really cool, it's a tad underexplored. QK does kinda feel like an NA2 at this point with it's mishmash of Haqq, CJC and mercs - but with a few new units, revamping some older stuff (especially Bashis imo) they could really be something quite interesting and unique.
     
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  8. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    You might prefer to see QK as the original NA2 / the original merc sectorial. That's how they were perceived back in the day.

    Also, I beg you - no new units, please. QK roster is large enough without that.
    Advanced / revised existing units, sure.
    Revising fireteam options, any day.
    I could even accept hiring some more (already existing!) "mercenary units" from CJC / StarCo / DBS / "open market".

    But let's not inflate the roster any more with "new stuff".

    BTW, what's wrong with the Bashi Bazouk...?
     
  9. tacos

    tacos Well-Known Member

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    QK's background as the original NA2 is interesting, but it feels dated at this point. I think a lot of the stuff it currently has from CJC just feels very vestigial as well, despite occupying design space such as the Iguana being QK's TAG (idk if Scarface counts being a character).

    Fwiw with some hypothetical new QK units, I'd be replacing the CJC stuff in there. I def agree that the roster doesn't need to be expanded. Maybe some new units could give room for the Druze stuff to be axed as well (I like Druze as units, but from a design pov there are points where it makes QK feel a lot like DBS).

    As for Bashis... I love the lore and vibes, and even the units themselves are are alright (if unfortunately often outcompeted by Yuan Yuans, maybe Bashis could use a bump to BS12 or MSV or something), I just kinda wish they were a little less... niche? Holomask+holoprojector is a weird equipment set that I think would be cool on maybe one specific profile, but I think it'd be neat if the other profiles were reserved for maybe some more weird mid range shooting type stuff (maybe a mim profile, maybe an LRL profile, maybe some kinda mine dispenser profile). They are supposed to have an assortment of dirty tricks and gimmicks, and while holomask+projector is absolutely that, it's only one trick!
     
    #29 tacos, Apr 9, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2024
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  10. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I'd absolutely love to hear what CB had in mind putting an AVA 1 non-linkable Mobile Brigada in QK. It is a niche unit, true, but a solo Brigada has some niches over a solo Janissary.

    Alguaciles - they were cheap Order Monkeys back in the day, they are even Linkable now, albeit in a Mixed Ghulam link. Niche, but if you need to cut costs on your Order battery, they work.

    Iguana was fine in N2, for what it was, of course.
    The changes to the Ejection / Escape System hurt it on transition from N2 to N3, and then to N4. Increase in availability of AP weapons didn't help either, and the "1W NWI TAG syndrom" has always been - in my opinion - way more of a downside than CB gave it credit for.
    Nb. it is ailing both Iguana and Anaconda equally as badly.

    I've been saying it for years - CB should rewrite both of these TAGs.

    And yes, in my book Scarface counts as a TAG, character or not.

    I'd counterargument that it is DBS who need to be torn down, rethought, and written anew. They are the first NA2 released, and they hurt from being, initally, a special campaign option for the Outrage scenarios. They weren't meant to be a normal sectorial - and as a result, we have what we have.

    Druze had their niche in QK back in N2, though changes to GL ranges pretty much took that niche away.

    The only thing Bahi Bazouks have in common with Yuan Yuan is the Parachutist skill.
    Apart from that?
    They're inexpensive Parachutists, or inexpensive decoys (with their holomasks and holoprojectors). Any bumps in BS or MSV would mean a serious rise in point cost.
    They can reliably engage light targets in close or medium (as in, "rifle-optimal" range".
    Yuo have AP optiins, too, for tougher targets.
    You have an EM Mine option, which is situational, but under right circumstances, very useful. Come in from a flank, and plant a mine to affect that pesky TAG or HI...?
     
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  11. Wizzy

    Wizzy Well-Known Member

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  12. Grotnib

    Grotnib Well-Known Member

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    I trust You've noticed that in QK the non-FTO Korsans are Fireteam compatible...? ;) The FTO restriction only applies in Reinforcements squads!
     
  13. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I worry at snowflake defence.
     
  14. tacos

    tacos Well-Known Member

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    DBS has actually really been on the up and up as of late imo - additions like Diggers, Denma and Zellenkriegers over the past few years have really shored up their durability issues, while Scarface is a solid TAG. The Digger-Druze-Brawler pure core is alright, and they have a very compelling hacking game with linked Druze Hackers and the Hunzakut for projection. Yes they are a bit of a mish-mash, but I think they are a very functional one that's a bit of a sleeper right now. They also have the dubious honor of being one of the only factions in the game that can spec fire strats, with the X-Visor pure core linked E/M GL Druze being very nasty. I think as an NA2 they are far more coherent and well balanced than say, Ikari.

    Bashis do play very differently to Yuan Yuans (the former being a kind of midrange gunfighter, the later being a warband), but they still compete imo due to the fact that they are both parachutists and irregulars - of which you are going to have very limited slots for in a list. At least by my measure (and at least going off what I see in most QK lists), it's better to fill those limited slots with Yuan Yuans, I think due to them filing a more vital role (smoke carrier) and having some stronger plays in general (e.g., forking CC with a direct template). I think they have very much been a victim of the 15 troop limit, and idk I just kinda feel some extra optimization is warranted to try and bring them back into play. Maybe some kinda weird non-parachutist FTO option for cheap af link filler akin to what Beasthunters can do in WhiteCo? I also kinda feel it's weird for every Bashi to have a holomask and holoprojector. I get the idea that they play dirty, and those two pieces of equipment allow for some dirty tricks, but I also kinda feel that there should be more options and vectors they have for dirty tricks and weird stuff? Idk, it just feels weird to me, I'm not sure how to articulate my thoughts beyond that.

    I feel this a bit of a weird argument to make when talking about a sectorial? I think what makes for a good faction/sectorial is having a strong thematic identity, and imo QK absolutely does have that, drawing on images of Barbary Corsairs and the Ottoman Empire. The flip side to that is having a strong mechanical identity as well, and I think this is where QK could use the most development - although I think there is absolutely a basis there with stuff like the double haris teams and Hafza as flexible and cheap link filler.
     
  15. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I actually didn't, thanks for the pointer!

    Ah, CB, giving us a taste of inconsistent rules writing again.
     
  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    It's possible for this to be a mistake in the Army, but then again, CB can be inconsistent.
     
  17. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well, someone is pretty happy to argue with me that it is not a mistake :P
     
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  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    I have no space pirate in that fight, just asking questions :P
     
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  19. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    I didn't mean you, but you're welcome :P
     
  20. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Writing is consistent, unit name can join fireteam, if only specific profiles can join a fireteam FTO is used, if only a particular profile is allowed to join a fireteam FTO2 is used.
     
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