Placing White Noise templates, timing

It's not a Supportware and the game doesn't really do memory in that way, so it sticks around until cancelled by turn end or by the Hacker attempting to activate an NFB skill.

 

The reason why I write that I don't see the FAQ as applicable is that there is no way you can have another model flub the target area by moving into its position for the White Noise zone. It is without doubt that you have to declare the intended area of the White Noise zone when you declare the order, just like with Smoke and just like with Mines, but it's different from both; since it's not a physical object it's impossible for a (fr)enemy to move into a position where it will block the zone and since it doesn't specify the keyword (maybe in N5 we'll get proper keywords) "target" you can as you say put the zones apart from each other in coordinated orders.
However, what's to say that instead of declaring it on the play table you declare the location in the pantry? That way you are guaranteed to be able to place the zone exactly where you want it after baiting out all AROs. The reason why a mine can be placed anew isn't to allow you to intentionally fuck the placement up; it's to prevent your opponent from gaming the system too much.

No, I don't think the rules and FAQ currently allow you to place the zone in a different spot than the one declared, but it might be an oversight and you're actually meant to place it at the same time as units make ARM/BTS rolls during the order.

 

Agree.

I think part of the issue with measurement happening at conclusion is that it can seemingly retroactively validate or invalidate a declared ARO in a horrible game-y way, rather than simply preventing said ARO and/or allowing a trooper to react with a different ARO upon the second skill.

For example, let’s say that in the original proposed scenario, an enemy figure performing a short move passes dangerously close to the hacking area of the Hacker (but behind a structure such that they are out of LoF). The path of movement makes it very unclear without measuring whether or not the ARO can happen. This creates a conundrum. Let’s say the hacker believes the figure entered their hacking area and declare they are going to use White Noise. Then as the second short skill, that figure moves again and has passed outside the hypothetical hacking area but is now in LoF. The hacker might now want to declare a BS attack ARO to hedge against the original ARO’s validity - realistically, one of the two ARO’s is valid and the other is not… but RAW you’re only allowed a single ARO declaration (even if the first one shouldn't have been do-able in the first place). However, if we later measure and find that the figure didn’t enter the hacking area during the first short skill, the ARO result is an idle, and the hacker frustratingly does nothing.

Likewise, if the hacker neglected to utilize their ZoC/hacking area ARO because they thought the figure was moving outside it, then declared a BS Attack after the figure moved into their LoF, and it is later discovered that the enemy figure did in fact pass (ever so slightly) through the hacking area, it would presumably negate a later BS Attack ARO because they had a chance to declare an ARO during the first short skill and didn’t.

It seems wrong to do it this way because the whole point of AROs is a REACTION - not speculation. If the figure didn’t enter your hacking area, they didn’t appear on your radar or you didn’t hear them or whatever. Whether the ARO is possible or not should be a prerequisite to declaration, rather than something that is established retroactively - instead the rules oddly weaponize the meta-information that the player has about otherwise ‘unseen’ figures against them. This is particularly weird in light of the fact that the validity of a LoF-based ARO is pretty easy to establish in most cases without measuring and the worst thing that usually happens if you mess up a guessed distance is an unfavorable range-band (which feels flavor-correct in a way that the hacking-area situation does not).

I see very little benefit to the RAW measurement-upon-resolution (especially now that things like movement can be measured at declaration) in comparison to all the drawbacks it has. My solution so far has been to simply allow an 8” ruler to be used at any time a ZoC ARO might be triggered to determine validity at the point of declaration. As long as you can get a buy-in from your opponent and not abuse it, I feel like it solves a lot of problems.

 

@inane.imp stuff that's declared with illegal premises such as at a point where it's out of range consistently fail throughout the rules; why would White Noise be different? To me it seems like you're bending the rules a bit with the intention to make them break instead of making them work. If a Carbonite is declared against a target that's not in Hacking Area or is not a Hackable target, it simply fails and the only difference is that there's an explicit reference target involved rather than an area chosen by you. Hacking Area isn't even a requirement for Carbonite, that is also an effect.

@Lawson I understand you and it was similar arguments that lead to the first case of where CB altered the ZoC rules to be effectively pre-measure during N3 (that only lasted a couple of months, but it's done some lasting damage to how quick people are at measuring ZoC around here).
I think the whole gist of the game is that a trooper's reaction is meant to be the player's speculation/gamble and a lot of the close range game hinges on the ARO manipulation that this results in.

 

I'll think about it. I'll probably separate it into its own question regarding hacking as the target being in hacking area really should be a requirement for all of them.

 

Because it's a range?

 

I'll see if framing it for myself as a feature rather than an apparent bug (the sort of 'uncertainty' that comes from trying to identify the source of nearby sound/movement) makes the idea of the ZoC/Hacking Area more palatable from a thematic standpoint. Curious why it went into and then out of vogue in N3... I can imagine that it has to do with how being able to measure 8" at any time is easily abusable to give you additional spatial information that contributes to more than just your hacking ability and could allow for choosing BS Attacks, movement to engage, etc.?