We've explained that the target CAN'T be the base of the attacking Trooper because friendly models are not valid targets. We've explained that the target can't be a point on the table because DTWs do not have the Targetless trait. We've explained that the targets are those troopers under the Template but for the attack to be valid LOF needs to exist between the attacker and one of those troopers because otherwise Intuitive Attacks are pointless. The core concept that we're trying to get across is that for ANY basic BS Attack you need LOF between the attacker and an enemy model. DTW does not say anything that means that this is not true. So, for a DTW 2 different sets of LOF need to be considered: the LOF between the attacker and the (primary) target (this is a requirement for a BS Attack) and the LOF between the blast focus and any trooper under the Template (this is a requirement for the Trooper to be hit). These two LOFs are different, both are required to be hit by a DTW.
You've provided two ways in which you think it could work, but both of those ways have been shown to go against rules already and yet you persist. So, I've already explained why your first idea doesn't work. Your second idea doesn't work because, as @inane.imp pointed out earlier, it would make intuitive attack irrelevant. You also seem to dodge the question of the point of the Targetless trait in ammunition...
Your own base cannot be the target because you can't target yourself. Those under the template cannot be the target because their needs to be LoF to the target to declare the attack, so there needs to be a target before the template is placed.
I'm listening, I've read all your posts in the thread, multiple times. Your arguments don't match the text of the rules. A target is literally there, in black and white, in the Requirements for the BS Attack Skill and again in the BS Attack sub-chapter, and again in the rules for distributing Burst in the same section.
Aside: Spoiler you need a (primary) target before you place the Template and after you place the Template all troopers affected by it become (secondary) targets of the attack. Unfortunately CB doesn't use the (primary) and (secondary) language explicitly :'(
Not once is a target stated as a requirement. It's just a whole lot of text and rules about how these actions interact with a target. That is not the same thing as requiring a target. But even when I provide examples of how targets arise while performing a DIrect template attack, they get dismissed. I guess placing the template down, and checking LoF to all those (targets) hit, isn't good enough. You all still insist I must declare one first. The rules don;t support that interpretation.
You need LOF to the target for a BS Attack unless specified otherwise, yes? Do the rules for DTW specify otherwise? If you think they do what prevents you from placing a Template through a Zero Vis zone to hit troopers that the attacker can't see? If nothing does, what is the point of Intuitive Attack?
Impact Template Weapons These weapons place a Template at the point of impact. Requirements The user of one of these weapons must declare a main valid target, and that target is used as a reference to place the Template. That's^ how you write a rule that requires a target. Can anyone find something similar in the BS attack or Direct template rules? Yes No Do my answers somehow prevent me firing a Direct template weapon?
Again, there in black and white. Requirement, LoF to the target. If there is no target, you cannot draw LoF to the target, therefore you have not fulfilled the REQUIREMENTS for making a BS Attack.
The other questions required me to believe DTWs don't require LoF. I said they do, so what's the point? You and I seem to have a very different understanding of the English language. The second part of that sentence even shows what it's actually referring to, which is LoF. Where is line stating unless the BS weapon, skill, or equipment used states specifically that it does not require a target? it's probably not there because that's not the requirement they are talking about.
Sorry I was confused by your answers earlier because I was not expecting them. To follow up: so you agree that you need LOF from the attacker to the target to BS Attack with a DTW?
The logic is you need to declare a target because you need LOF to a target and you can't have LOF to something that doesn't exist. So unless you declare a target you can't meet the LOF requirements and the attack can't be valid.
No. I believe you need LoF to the troopers under the Direct template for them to be hit. You can call those troopers targets if you like. But I don't believe i need to declare one specific target before placing that template down when declaring the attack.
Ok. So in a situation where the attacker can see trooper A but not trooper B (and both are hit by the template) is the attack valid? Why or why not?
Zero Vis zone or DTWing around terrain (DTW is placed in a position where LOF can be drawn from the blast focus to trooper B but LOF between the attacker and Trooper B does not exist).
If i fired my DTW at a trooper in the open and positioned the template to hit another trooper in smoke, I'd say both take the hit. As far as I'm aware it only takes one trooper to be legally hit for the attack to be valid and taken to it's resolution. Which means any camo or troopers in smoke also take dmg. The same goes for scenery blocking my LoF. If the attack has a legitimate hit, any other troopers in LoF of the blast focus also get hit.
Ok. So in that case who's the target of the attack for the purposes of determining whether or not LoF exists?
