Direct template weapons use BS Attack as skill to attack. You can shoot A twice. However, if you shoot through a Saturation Zone your burst will be reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1.
So I can place the template in exactly the same position to hit A&B twice. However, I can't place it in exactly the same position to only hit A twice. That doesn't sound like it's working as intended to me.
Direct template weapons still have a main target, if both templates are declared against a main target then burst is reduced by one. If the main target is split, then the burst remains the same. Note if Main target is out of range of template, that singular burst would be nulled.
As far as the rules are written, that is the intended behavior. If mentally have issues, what if u shifted one of the blasts a non 0 but insignificant distance to the left or right? What is the difference?
We're still talking about a fairly rare circumstance involving a somewhat weird mechanic which is a saturation Zone. In most games, such an effect would reduce your total burst by 1, but in Infinity it reduces on a per-target basis with a minimum of 1 per target. This is why it gets weird. If you're standing outside a saturation zone, there wouldn't be a problem.
As per this thread, you can split burst of smoke grenades. So you could place one an insignificant distance to the left and avoid the burst reduction. The precedent is there. Flamethrowers don't have the targetless trait so may behave differently. The rules tell me in two separate places to simply place the template where the user stands. Isn't that what is deemed as a 'target'? From there we see what the attack affects. Impact template weapon rules just reinforce this imo: The user of one of these weapons must declare a main valid target, and that target is used as a reference to place the Template." It requires a main target as a reference to then place the template. So I'd argue the user firing twin flamethrowers is the 'target'. Which might mean when standing in a saturation zone it's firing at B1 and outside the zone at B2, regardless of what enemies are actually hit by the template. I think this is how I'll play it until I see an official ruling.
Direct Template Weapons are fired via the BS Attack Skill, which explicitly requires a target, and LoF to that target.
Does that alter my conclusion above in some way? The user is the target and thus automatically has LoF. Or does that cause issues when i try to use a direct template weapon against someone standing in smoke? EDIT: Can I shoot a target I have LoF to with an Impact template weapon and position the template to hit another target standing in smoke?
Well, you can't target friendly troopers (which includes yourself) with an attack, so the target cannot be the trooper firing the DTW. Also, you can't just fire the weapon with nothing to fire it at... Indeed, the rules a fairly clear that a DTW requires an enemy target to be fired, from which everything else being said about splitting burst follows.
If the user is the target, they'd be trying to shoot themselves. And you're not allowed to shoot your own troopers (without some form of exception, such as MediKit). http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Skills Attack. The use of this Skill is a form of Attack. Remember that you cannot declare attacks against allies or Neutral units, whether represented by figures or Markers.
Well, when it comes to Smoke, keep in mind that Smoke has "Targetless" which means you can target the ground. So if you shoot two smoke grenades and shift one grenade's area an insignificant distance, it's a smoke shot at two different targets. As for this question I quote up there, remember that an Impact Template Weapon have a very specific template placement when using a circular Impact Template that targets and enemy. The template bubble has to be centred on the enemy trooper's silhouette central core so to speak - or alternatively the centre of the silhouette's x and y value, with free placement on z (height) axis. It's still the same formal target, regardless of where on this axis you place the bubble.
I probably should have just said using a shotgun. Am I allowed to place the template so the trajectory hits the enemy trooper in smoke behind the initial target? Well the user isn't really the target of the attack. That's why i said 'target' instead. The target is the point in base to base with the trooper. I think that makes far more sense then the alternative outcome where i can shoot two enemies standing near each other for a total of 4 hits but I can't score 2 hits against one lone enemy.
That may be the case, but the rules make no sense. Impact template weapon rules stipulate as a requirement that you must select a target and Direct doesn't require that. Direct template rules have different instructions. So why do Impact rules say you need a target if its implied by the fact it's an attack?
Because the target of an impact template directly affects the placement of the template. A DTW isn't constrained in the same way, but still doesn't override BS Attack's requirement for a valid enemy target in LoF. Then you've got the FAQ that states that if a DTW doesn't reach it's target then the whole attack is cancelled.
The Impact rules still don't need to stipulate that you require a target if it's already implied by being an attack. The rules can simply instruct you to place the template as it does, just like the Direct template rules. Yet only one of those has written rules requiring a target. If Direct templates required an enemy target why isn't it listed as a requirement? Where are the instructions about how to place the template by touching or completely covering the target? I'd say the rules already tell us how to place the template: these weapons place a Template where their user stands Place the Template down when you declare the Attack to determine what the Attack affects Place the narrow end of the Teardrop Template (Blast Focus) contacting the edge of the attacker's base or Silhouette Template. All troopers affected by the Template suffer the Attack We don't need a conventional enemy target. If we did, i'm sure the rules would tell us.
It doesn't need to, that's already a requirement of making a BS Attack. If this requirement wasn't needed then the rules would tell us, like giving the all DTWs the targetless trait. Plus the fact that if a Direct Template weapon doesn't reach it's target then the attack is cancelled. But that's already been pointed out to you nearly half a dozen times so at this point I can't tell if you're trolling or not.
Don't be an ass. If the responses were clear and made sense, I'd accept them. But the Infinity rules hardly ever do that. So you'll have to forgive me if it takes you a little more effort to provide an explanation that makes sense. You haven't explained why Impact rules bother to list a target as a requirement then. Both Impact and Direct function perfectly without listing the requirement for a target. They don't need to give Direct the targetless trait because the rules already explain how to place the template. It provides the target location for us. The Impact rules don't need to list a separate requirement for a target for that to be the result either. So if the enemy target isn't in range of the blast focus, the attack is nullified because you can't place the template down as instructed.
Impact templates need to specify a main target to align the template and determine who gets affected by a crit, that's why they mention a target. But lets turn this around, where in the rules does it say that Direct Templates over-ride the BS Attack requirement to target an enemy trooper?
