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Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by siri, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    I think for many or at least me its about internal balances. I feel that the armys are pretty well balanced between each other sure some are a bit stronger some are weaker but personally I haven't experienced anything extreme. But internal balance is another problem, can I play Tohaa without sukeuls and kaeltars? Sure but I am handicapping myself. There are just some units that are to useful to have so other similiar units in the same army won't really get any use.
     
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  2. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Not all armies can equally easy or hard complete all classifieds and mission objectives which itself means that there is no such things as balance between the armies. But this is not issue with the armies themselves, it's an ITS missions problem IMO.
    Also I would say that no army that has autoincludes is well balanced internally. Tohaa suffers from that bad, same as FRRM, O.S.S. and probably some others. But not all.
     
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  3. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Its been a while since I looked at Yomi, but from what I recall all the characters were fairly different mechanically. To some extent Infinity has a great deal of overlap with rules/abilities/stats. Even profiles between army can be near identical. Thats not to say that it isn't hard to balanced Infinity but I also think the process to balance it is simplified somewhat in that way.

    This is fair, Im not a huge fan of the idea of auto include units but in some cases I think people are deluding themselves. Example: Kaeltar now are good but are they an auto include? My opinion is no outside of running a Gorgos.

    As for Autoincludes in infinity as a whole it seems to me like most armies have some unit that over performs.

    • Pan O: Joan/Bulletteer
      • SAA: Dart?
      • MO: Joan
      • NCA: Swiss Guard/Auxillia?
      • VIRD: Kamau?
    • Nomads: Intruder/Interventors
      • CORR: Intruder
      • BAK: Die Morlok
      • TUNG: Interventors? Puppet Tactica?
    • Ariadna: Chasseur
      • FRRM: Chassuers
      • USARF: Grunt Inferior Infiltrators/Foxtrots
      • CHA: 45th Galwegians
      • TAK: Vet Kazak? Streloks?
    • Haqq: Mutts
      • HB: Fiday/Daylami
      • QK: Yuan Yuan
      • RT: Muktar/Ghulam NCO
    • Yu Jing: Ninja
      • ISS: Kuang Shi/Su Jian
      • IA: Dao Ying/Tai Sheng
    • CA: Ikadrons/Imetrons
      • MAF: Anyat/Raktorak
      • SEF: Caliban/Speculo
      • OCF: Noctifier? Ikadrons?
    • Aleph: Post Humans/Netrods
      • OSS: Post Humans/Netrods/Arjuna
      • ASS: Achilles/Pheonix/Machaon?
    • Tohaa: Makaul/Draal
    • O-12: Gangbuster?
    • NA2
      • Druze: ?
      • FoCo: The A-Team?
      • Dash: Bounty Hunters/Rui Shi?
      • StarCo: Handleman
      • Spiral: Draal/Taagma
      • JSA: Ninja/Ryuken-9 ODD/SMG
      • Ikari: Yuan Yuan
     
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  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I don't think necessarily all of these are autoincludes, and in some cases it's more due to the unit filling a hole that has to be plugged than anything else -- for example, Keisotsu appear in basically all JSA lists, so in one definition they are autoincludes, but I don't think it's because they're good, it's because they're necessary. Here's my edited list of your list that is only things that I would really consider as this should be in 95% of lists with notes about ones that are more about roles than strength.

    • Pan O: None really, but Joan now has 4 cheap orders
      • SAA: Bagh-Mari MSR, Regular Sensor/Minelayer
      • MO: None here
      • NCA: None here
      • VIRD: Kamau MSV2 MSR, Zulu Cobra Jammer/Sensor
    • Nomads: Intruder
      • CORR: Intruder
      • BAK: Zeros
      • TUNG: Arguably Kriza
    • Ariadna: Chasseur
      • FRRM: Chassuers
      • USARF: None here
      • CHA: Galwegians
      • TAK: Spetnaz or Vet Kazak, every list should have at least one or the other.
    • Haqq: Mutts
      • HB: Fiday
      • QK: Yuan Yuan
      • RT: Muktar MSV2 Red Fury
    • Yu Jing: Kuang Shi/Rui Shi
      • ISS: Kuang Shi/Rui Shi (Rui Shi can be dropped only if Hsien is in list)
      • IA: Daoying
    • CA: Ikadrons/Imetrons
      • MAF: I'm not familiar with this army enough to judge
      • SEF: Speculo
      • OCF: Ikadron/Imetron/Nexus or Kerr-Nau or both/Unidron -- this is more about roles than OP-ness though. Onyx core options are not many
    • Aleph: Post Humans/Netrods
      • OSS: Post Humans/Netrods
      • ASS: Phoenix (only long range ARO in the army with decent odds, so necessity)
    • Tohaa: Sukeul, Makaul, Kaeltar (I still feel like Kaeltar fits here because in addition to mates it gives CoC at bargain bin prices in a faction with frequently obvious/exposed LT)
    • O-12: Omega
    • NA2
      • Druze: Druze (lmao)
      • FoCo: None
      • Dash: Rui Shi
      • StarCo: Emily
      • Spiral: Draal (because only good shooting piece)/Taagma (Tricore and MSV2 MSR because otherwise why are you playing Spiral instead of Tohaa)
      • JSA: Ryuken-9 ODD/SMG
      • Ikari: Yuan Yuan
     
    #24 meikyoushisui, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  5. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    A petition on facebook.
    Yeah, good luck with that. Even in this age where social media presences are almost mandatory, I don't think it'll make much of a difference.