1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Petition: Guijia, Raicho and Maghriba

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Mahtamori, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1,749
    I have seen this chunk of fluff. There's also another one that says they're used to hunt megafauna in their home planet. The current loadout makes neither of those fluff points very obvious on the model. I do like the idea of the Raicho getting FA1 to kick its burst to 5 on the active turn, but I would rather it got a different weapon or skill to make it more useful both in MAF and vanilla CA
     
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    8,738
    Yeah, that was part of my issue with the Blue Wolf: How to avoid stepping on other unit's toes. Holo2 lets you invoke the whole wolf pack image, even though two-thirds of the 'pack' are false targets. The TAG would have Mountain Terrain, and Super-Jump is for the whole wolf-pounce.

    The Blue Wolf name is from the older Jotum fluff, about how the fights between Jotum and Blue Wolf TAGs are legendary for their ferocity. While the Blue Wolves could simply be a unit of Guijia stationed on Svalarheima, they're more interesting as a dedicated TAG destroyer IMO.

    The rumors about them merely being a Guijia are from around 2009. We have a lot more tools in the box to make an interesting 3rd TAG now.

    While the Feuerbach name is German/PanO, the design is actually Nomad. See also every Human Sphere nation using the exact same Chain Rifle (which IIRC is a PanO design for a vacuum cleaner), as well as Crazy Koalas being a YJ invention that was licensed by the Nomads.


    But yeah, I'm trying to come up with something that is a dedicated TAG destroyer that is optimized for mountain and extreme cold weather operations, without stepping on the toes of the Guijia, O-Yoroi, Su Jian, or Yan Huo. The Yan Huo is why I'm trying to avoid MHMG or HRMC, the Su Jian means that it won't have a flamethrower and will be 6-4MOV, and it's ARM6 BTS6 S6 to be different from the TAGs.

    Except that we have Nano weapons as well as Viral. Though I suppose that 'Nano' weapons are simply disassemblers while 'Viral' weapons imitate biological processes.

    One terrifying idea from the writer of Heavy Object is a nanotech analogue of a biological virus. Being nanotech, it allows you to turn the virus on or off at will. But that still involves slower infection times than the Very Fast Death Factor that is Viral ammo in the game.


    This is a wishlist thread, what did you have in mind?
     
    Errhile, DaRedOne and Mahtamori like this.
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,393
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Yeah, that's the thing - viral infections are necessarily going to be slow-acting compared to toxins or kinetic energy. Kind of clowny.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,837
    Likes Received:
    7,258
    Aren't Chain Rifles YJ or at least for the vast majority built in YJ and dumped on every shady market in existence
     
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1,749
    *cracks knuckles* Alright, let's talk about what I would do to the Raicho if I could. There's basically two lines of thought I would like to see with the model, and they're both different yet I think they could be awesome on their own right:

    1 - Big Game Hunter: Remove the MULTI HMG, give it twin autocannons. This is the "I fight predators the size of tanks" Raicho. Basically, by giving it a Burst3 hugeass gun it becomes one of the best TAG and HI killers in the game by virtue of sheer hitting power. It's not subtle at all, and its reactive turn is mostly the same as it is right now, but in the active turn it will make any other tag really scared of being on its sights. Besides, by giving it these very unique weapons it opens the chance for a resculpt that's bulkier, harder looking than the kinda slender model we have right now.

    2 - Go nuts: Keep the MULTI HMG, but give it berzerk and an EXP CCW and make it Frenzy. Now we have the fabled 'Pilot goes completely apeshit inside the machine' model. The reason I prefer this over FA is that it encourages a more agressive playstyle, while FA just makes you stand and shoot. As it is a TAG and can't be linked, the frenzy will kick in and there's little to do about it other than use the TAG to its maximum potential before it dies a glorious, messy death. By making it effective at CC the TAG can even do some blaze of glory moments against special characters and other TAGs.

    Both of these changes, one or the other, would make the TAG more interesting, more fun to play and fit its lore better in my opinion
     
    Belgrim, Reece, Section9 and 2 others like this.
  6. leigen_zero

    leigen_zero Morat Pacifist

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    579
    Pretty much nailed it, the Raicho name came about as the Morat name for the tag is the Raizot, which ended up getting mistranslated as Raicho by Yu Jing forces, and the name stuck as the 'mythical bird of thunder/fire' fitted the TAG quite nicely


    this would be awesome
     
  7. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,431
    Likes Received:
    4,630
    It may not be super realistic, but I think it still fits into the general tone and style of the game universe.

    From N3:
    I seem to recall the 2nd edition writeup being substantially similar.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,393
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    The "nanomachines" answer is easier to swallow because it's fantasy tech anyway. Biological viruses just don't work on the timescale that Infinity suggests.
     
  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    I'm no biologist, but I wonder if that's only due to scale. Sure, a few flu viruses can get you sick over several days... some viruses are fatal and can act somewhat quicker, but what if you were injected with several grams of Ebola? Could that not start compromising your internal Biome almost immediately?

    Honest question for the Pathologically literate out there. (Now that I read that to myself, it doesn't quite sound right...)
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,393
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Not really. The process by which a virus overtakes a cell can't be sped up simply by adding more pathogen. If you're at least passingly familiar with chemistry, you know that a chemical process can often be sped up by adding more of the reactants, which drives the reaction faster/further, but viral infections are a more complex process. Viruses have mechanisms which prevent multiple viral particles from infecting the same cell, and once a virus has infected a cell it needs to replicate its own code many times to spread. That process takes time, longer than for a toxin to take effect, for example.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,837
    Likes Received:
    7,258
    It's a bit of a separate thread entirely, but I think viral should replace double trouble (or become a BTS-explosion effect) and be an e-war term. Viral would probably be better off as a neurotoxin or similar effect and like shock be normal ammo versus STR.
     
    Hecaton and Abrilete like this.
  12. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    559
    Just throwing in some thoughts....

    Guijia gains Duo with any HI. Because its the HI faction and the thought of heavy armored buddies on the front together seems fitting.
    Maghariba gains a 4th STR. Its really big, so why not.
    Raicho gains FA1. Because of the background.
     
    #72 emperorsaistone, Dec 27, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    P-Chan, Section9 and toadchild like this.
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    8,738
    I like. That 4th STR point will be hellaciously expensive, though.

    What about the Lizard, though? That's the other manned Main Battle TAG (I'm going to be a dick and say that the Squalo's special thing is that it's G:RP). Lizzie has an HGL option, so X-visor would not be a good idea.

    Because I'd really like to make each of the Main Battle TAGs a little more different than they already are (back to the discussion about all the Main Battle Tanks are really similar but still different). Not much, just enough to make them a little more characterful.
     
  14. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    559
    Well, what about giving it a second pilot (which can not dismount for simplicitys sake) and while this one is dismounted, the Tag can act with the possesed profile?

    Yep, the 4th STR would have to cost quite something, but no idea how much....which is why I only gave ideas without balancing thougts;)
    I just hope CB is reading this kind of topics from time to time and playtesting some of the stuff mentioned.
     
  15. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    I dunno really, I'd prefer a faction with a ton of tools and tricks to keep reasonable access to them in a TAG list. Hilariously expensive TAG kinda does not contribute to the idea.
    I'm strangely okay with Maggie being a "TAG with a discount for secondary things".

    EDIT: In fact, how about it losing Advanced ECM (and associated costs) to empathize that further? I mean, it's cool fluffy bit, but I doubt ECM is the reason TAGs aren't typically shot with Guided stuff. Although we may be stepping into optimization territory here, which is a dangerous thing to do in Infinity.

    Besides, there are other things that could be fluffy about Maggie. Say, Multiterrain. I mean, have you seen that stupidly elaborate chassis? And weren't there missions utilizing Difficult Terrain on a mandatory basis (or are there only vis mods and saturation)?.
    I wonder how much would it cost on a TAG.
     
    #75 Barrogh, Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,902
    Likes Received:
    1,924
    I'd like to see a profile that comes with two Guija in a pair (like Scarface or Duroc) to help take them an squads.
     
  17. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    1,950
    The best way to buff/spice up the Guijia would be to give it a sectorial army list to be used in and ensure it keeps fatality along with all other TAGs.
     
    loricus likes this.
  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,929
    can i go with "git gud"?

    Seriously as previously pointed out the TAGs fall in line with their pts costs and the "benefits" that most TAGs in the game have, a lot of the suggestions here are patently ridiculous, unfitting of the theme and ignore the realities that the defining aspects and diferences in profiles in this game is made up of small niche abilities, which those TAGs already have even if that "niche" is "carries no bloat" in the case of the guija
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,837
    Likes Received:
    7,258
    A- I'm bored of the Halberd that everyone on the internet says you should play with.
    B- Try the Bardiche, the Dark Knight Halberd or the Lucerne!
    A- Sure the Lucerne is slightly different, but they've still all got the same move set. It'd be nice if not everyone had to run around with them and if one was a Great Sword or another had distinct advantages such as a specific high-damage sweet spot - you know to change things up a bit.
    B- lol, git gud.

    That's not how you use that idiom. Git Gud is used against someone complaining about difficulty, not variety.
    (And yes, I know, Halberds are specific to the Japanese meta and that the western meta has strongly favoured straight swords until Hyperarmour was discovered and everyone went Claymore and similar. Damned whiners brought hyperarmour back to DS3 instead of gitting gudder)

    I fail to see how the Guijia carries no bloat. The baseline for a TAG is so high that you need that "bloat" to make it worthwhile since several abilities on TAGs are cheap compared to the baseline costs, which doesn't make them bloat, but that's for a different thread - not this one.
    I also fail to see how "a lot of" suggestions are unfitting for the theme when we have more than one TO TAG in game and a freaking mind-controlling TAG. Particularly the Raicho suggestions so far seem to have been very to the point, IMO.
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    8,738
    Back in N2, Guided ammo was very popular as a TAG-killer. You needed to bring a hacker to swat Guided ammo (~50% success rate) and then the ECM gave you another 25% chance to swat a GML that made it past your hacker. Roughly a 3/8 chance of hitting a TAG with full protections, as opposed to 100% chance of hitting without them.


    Multiterrain would be interesting, and probably not too expensive. Less than 10 points on a TAG.