1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Patsy + Kamau + Machinist Haris now broken?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by ThananRollice, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,708
    Likes Received:
    4,597
    Sepulcher. It has a guardian, even if it is hard to spot :p
     
    eciu likes this.
  2. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    741
    I'am really don't understand why the "haris" is prohibited now. With the example of Patsy it will be clear it isn't a mistake. I have confronted it a couple of times and I don't see anything really "broken", usefull yes, but nothing more.

    I really hope Corvus don't wait too much in restore this haris.

    The comparason you made between ASA y VIRD is really right in most of cases. As @barakiel said, if I didn't understand him wrong, VIRD have a "stronger DICE-ARO" as ASA, the Kamau snipper is amazing against a big number of targets if SSL2, as Achilles, Dog Warriors, etc, because this troups will have a hard time trying to pass in front of the Kamau even if the succeded, probably they will have to confront some jammer and/or some Ilota, making our rival waste a lot of orders for probably do nothing, and against this kind of profiles ASA suffers a lot because mines don't stop it really well and smoke prevents Achilles or DogWarriors be shooted, but against camos or impersonators mines are a lot better. So, both sectorials are strongh in ARO, one "active" and other "passive".

    @Sungwon true, mines can be shooted from distance, but every order waste in put down a mine is a succefull mine placed. If the opponent are killing mines he is not killing your troups, and you have more mines where the first ones came.

    I don't think ASA will be over VIRD, only they have the same "defensive style" but really different, and this is really Ok. Maybe ASA will be a little funnier because
     
    barakiel and Cadmo like this.
  3. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,114
    Because prior to the FAQ this:

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]3
    DEVA (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40)
    Rebot SAMEKH FTO Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    3 SWC | 82 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    and this:

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]3
    ASURA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 71)
    RUDRA MULTI Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 39)
    Rebot SAMEKH FTO Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    3.5 SWC | 127 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    were technically valid "Yadu" fireteams (we had no clarification one way or the other).

    Presumably there is some sort of balancing cost associated with the "unit xxx - fireteam: Haris" trooper's cost, so you can't sub it out while still retaining the property of the "unit" enabling specific other troopers to join.
    In this case, the ability of the Machinist to join a Kamau fireteam is presumably balanced against a Kamau fireteam: Haris profile taking a slot in that fireteam (so if you want to bring a Machinist in a Haris team, you have to pick either a heavy weapon trooper or a HI, not both as there is only the one free slot).
     
    xagroth, A Mão Esquerda and Stiopa like this.
  4. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    6,589
    I think this is a reasonable post, though I think direct comparison is possible here. The reason being that I think every VIRD list is likely to include at least two Zulu Cobras, and every Acon list is likely to include at least two Nagas. They occupy a similar price point, and are likely to fulfill somewhat similar roles. The Naga definitely doesn't help with defense initially... But this often isn't important, because they have multiple Minelayers in the Acon DZ to help the Acon player survive the first turn. From there, Nagas have the opportunity spend orders and place mines, so their defensive value increases. Acon's defense can actually improve as the game goes on, thanks to deploying mines.

    For your last paragraph, you're 100% right that VIRD's strength is how it overlaps its defense. But as I mentioned, it also dictates which units you'll use, and allows an opponent to prepare their counters. The more time goes by, the better opponents become at countering VIRD's defense. One of the long-term advantages of Acon is that mines can't really by defended against. That was the premise of my last post... VIRD's defense is layered and can be pulled apart, and Acon's defense (though not nearly as ironclad) is subject to fewer direct counters.
     
    daboarder likes this.
  5. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    574
    I think Helots are absolutely amazing against Camo markers. Since they are markers themselves they can delay their ARO against enemy markers without suffering incoming fire. If the enemy marker does anything else than discover+shoot that unveils him i get normal rolls into his face with my helot. (if he tries to shoot someone for example) Combine a Helot with a fugazi or even a warcor and it instantly become really hard for camo markers to move through your defensive line.
     
  6. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    103
    Why not just swap Machinist with Kamau FO? After all you are legal to form ORC Haris with Patsy (has built-in fireteam: haris) and two Kamau (which are both Wildcards).
    Can't see any reason why this Haris is not legal:

    Varuna Immediate Reaction Division
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    3
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    KAMAU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    KAMAU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 28)

    1 SWC | 86 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  7. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    84
    You can, but I guess it's not the same level of utility compared to HI trooper carrying engineer with him in case some accidents happen on the way.
     
  8. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    103
    I totally agree, loved that all-around awesome and utility-heavy haris, but hey - this one is still awesome and capable of doing so much stuff on the game table)
     
    Seraphin likes this.
  9. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    84
    In this case I would change the FO to Paramedic to not double on the FO (Patsy is already Forward Observer herself).
     
  10. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2018
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    103
    It's arguable, IMO after all having an option to throw additional two flash pulses with WIP 13 from a unit with mimetism on ARO is better than trying to heal someone with PH-3 or to have an option to perform two additional classifieds in a haris that already can do 12 (or was it 14?).
     
    Seraphin likes this.