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Patsy in the core?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Rocker, May 8, 2019.

  1. Rocker

    Rocker Active Member

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    Usually if I take Patsy in VIRD it is for the haris link with machinist and kamau hmg, but I was wondering if you have experimented with putting Patsy in the core with kamau sniper+fusiliers?

    I am considering this for missions where you want a durable datatracker, such as Frostbyte or Firefight. You get additional defense from the link bonuses, and with the NCO bonus you can throw Nimbus for your ZC or advance late in the game if needed.

    Normally I take an Orc in the link with HMG or Feuerbach for this, but I feel I am wasting the swc on a unit I dont want to use since it nets my opponent OP if it dies.

    So please let me know your experience with Patsy if you've taken her without taking the "standard" haris team.

    (Finding a good defensive Datatracker is difficult in VIRD imo)
     
    barakiel likes this.
  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I know the exact listbuilding dynamic you're describing. I've been trying hard to figure it out myself.

    I had to resolve it for a big tournament recently, and opted for the ORC HMG as my aggressive Datatracker. As you say, there are risks involved... You're investing in a piece that's crucial to your gunfighting, and you really don't want to lose it in the natural course of fighting. That definitely makes Patsy a more logical choice... She won't be exposing herself to a lot of danger, making her a better Datatracker.

    But damn, does she feel expensive and irrelevant just sitting in a Core. I never want to advance my Core... The strengths of the the Kamau MSV2 and preserving my Order pool are just too huge. As a result, my Datatracker always ends up advancing solo, and Patsy just doesn't have the capability to do it alone. Hence the HMG.
     
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  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Frostbyte is really mostly about taking 2nd turn, more than it’s about having a durable Datatracker
     
  4. Rocker

    Rocker Active Member

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    Would you say a combi wielding 1W 1Arm is a viable Datatracker for Frostbyte then? Like a doctor or engineer?
     
  5. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Not if you are up against an opponent who understands the mission.

    They will have taken tools to at least attempt an assassination run, and against such a DataTracker are all to likely to succeed.

    That's basically an automatic mission loss.

    Frostbyte is a mission which demands a different approach to list building in many cases, and might be an argument for a double-ORC Core (HMG to box through and a second ORC with Sixth Sense to be the toughest Data Tracker we can possibly drop).
     
  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Against a Fiday, Speculo and Kitsune your Orc is just as likely to die as a Warcor. Against all else, prone on a building works just fine 99,99999999999999999% of the time. So no, take turn two and drop the false comfort ARM4 brings.
     
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  7. Rocker

    Rocker Active Member

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    Even if you hide it on a rooftop, put mine close to it and it is in jammer range? Maybe with kamau sniper having LoF to it and/or TR bot?

    I think Varuna would be one of the better factions for defending such a weak DT.
     
  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Wont save it from an opponents Squalo for one
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Or from an Impersonator.
     
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  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Or even an LGL.

    Let's not even get into a Nomad bringing an SML (repeaters and pitchers everywhere just because they're Nomads, then the Spotlight hacking program to mark target within 8" of said repeater). I still think there is very little reason for most hacking-heavy Nomads to not bring a Vertigo Zond with the SML.
     
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  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yeah, it's a terrible "plan A" but it's a damn good "plan B" to have up your sleeve.

    Especially for the cost.
     
  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    TBH, the Haris is enough. You don't need to play a core for your ORCs to destroy a lot of things with them. And don't forget that you choose your DT once the deployment is done so just nominate someone away from Impersonators instead of just saying one trooper will always be your DT.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That is an important point!
     
  14. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Oh well, guess I’m talking to deaf ears or people who can’t read, since they mention the impersonator, which their precious Orc will most likely die to as well (as was pointed out).

    The Squallo and SML are usually not things you see in tournament settings anyways.
     
  15. Rocker

    Rocker Active Member

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    If the DT is in range to be spotlighted, it also means that the ORC can get hacked.

    I think I will playtest a weaker DT and see how it goes. I hope that the additional units and orders in the list will make up for it.

    PS: Would you choose 2nd turn if you won the initiative in Frostbyte? I generally have bad experience from a player deploying first and going second.
     
  16. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Deploying first and going second is how you know when you're finally good at this game.

    When it stops costing you the game, you are getting good.
     
  17. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    That depends. Against a speculo, the difference is trivial. Against any other impersonator, mines won’t be very effective against the orc. And the orc will be more likely to survive long enough for the Kamau sniper to shoot through the smoke to kill the impersonator on the way in. Also more likely to go to unconscious to be doctored back up later.

    Burst 2 on 20s (17s after ma3 and assuming a core team), even with a pistol, means that the orc has a non trivial chance of winning the face to face roll as well.
     
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  18. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    You smoke before you enter B2B with the Orc, the Orc can't fire back on B2 on 20's (anyone who engages like that is playing their impersonator very wrong). If the person with Impersonation is serious about assassinating the Datatracker, then he will of course Coup De Grace on the unconscious Orc.

    Look, I'm not saying the Orc is bad as a Datatracker and people are allowed to play how to suit their own playstyle and Im sorry if my posts gave the opposite impression. My point was, that in my own experience (in tournaments) having "solid" datatracker creates a false sense of security and the player going first should rather focus on how he can take out orders for rambo pieces that can kill your datatracker in the middle etc.
    Also from my experience, turn 2 is really strong in that mission.

    Theres no yes/no answer to that question. It depends on the army you're facing and some armies/lists do this better than others. Fx. Ariadna and TAK will almost always choose 2nd turn because they usually dont care about counter deployment, as there is very little to counter deploy when deploying obscene amounts of camo. They'll gladly take 2nd turn and watch you waste your first turn, while saving orders for their camo tokens go up and kill what ever advanced. Meanwhile, some JSA and CA lists loves to go first because they favor a playstyle where they are trying to inflict as much damage as possible, so you'll hopefully never recover.
    Then there are broken armies like Haqq, where no matter what you choose they always have the advantage. Either you're wasting your time dealing with a cheap Impersonator that eats up much of your time or you're dealing with no costs roadblocks like Daylami's and Mutts OR you opt to go second and he will do massive damage with his Fiday(s) and is spoiled for choices, whether he should trash you with his Forward Deployment MSV2+Smoke or merely go on the critting train with FAT2.

    Going second, deploying first, is not about "git gud", it's about designing your lists with the perspective of stalling enough to survive first turn. Usually that requires a mixture of experience and a good knowledge of what you suspect of dealing with.
     
  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Even with a Speculo the ORC is better off, especially in a Fireteam.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Funny part is that most resiliant Varuna LT is a Zulu Cobra Lt.

    Those camo markers are golden (not to mention you can do very efficient shell game with other Zulu Cobras and Helots!).

    So yeah, Camo protects from Impersonators and LGL/HGLs.