Thanks for sharing! I'm really looking forward to your game breakdowns, and hopefully a couple from the other side too. That's an interesting range of opposing armies. Was Dashat really popular or did you just luck into meeting them multiple times? The first list feels like a tough choice for Supremacy, but stronger for the other three missions you ran it in. Was that a fair reflection of how the lists matched the missions?
I actually think its a good matchup for supremacy in my opinion. All you really need to do in that mission is hold 2 zones (one of which must be the XT zone) pop your scanner, grab classifieds and cap and blow the consoles. Additionally due to the divided nature of the HI as opposed to the cutter last time I played the mission, then its possible to spread them across zones to push for the bigger win. in fact thats actually what happened in my first game. Its also important to remember that the list does have the capability for running a marker state HI rocking 40ish pts to steal zones without compromising the list integrity too much. The only real downside is that lack of camo hunting. but unlike frontline or quadrant the consoles change supremacy as a mission to something more confrontational
Hmmn... interesting points. So, was there a mission where you felt you were compromising with that list?
I mean its also completely bogged down with the opposite, people who refuse to accept existing limitations and just want to blow sunshine up MOs proverbial ass. Is MO a shithole that is basically unplayable? NO, nothing in infinity is. Is it factually the weakest pano sectorial with the most limitations and least thought put into it? Yeah, but again this is infinity you can carry yourself to top 10 with any semifunctional list. What others are arguing is that a lot more armies nowadays come in with baked in insurance to allow for fuck ups. Where MO is more punishing for those, so two A grade players going at it, the lack of leeway on MO will start to show. Some people are also frustrated with how evident simple changes that would take something to greatness seem. Specially with how damn good our other sectorials look.
not any particular mission no, but then there were small compromises in the overall list build. For example, id have preffered Joan to be linked in Frostbyte for what amounts to the toughest DT in the game In my opinion. but that would mean running a Hospitaller crusade link for the rest of the tournie, which would have not been ideal given the cost in other missions (high cost HI link is a benefit for frostbyte) so I have to make the compromise of not linker her in frostbyte to get the Tueton Core. Id have liked Sensor in my MO, but they dont do it well and to get it I would have had to have lost the HI that were in my opinion more critical to the armoury room missions and frostbyte, so thats another small compromise to make the list as a whole appropriate for 4 missions not 1. EDIT: To have a go at the "MO is shit and allows no redundancy" crowd. What are you lot smoking? My list has a shedload of redundancy, redundancy and tools I get in MO that I dont in VIRD, ASA or NCA. Namely its got a HI link that is capable in medium/close range, has the wounds to allow for my "Fuckups" as they have been so nicely put, and has the CC stats that mean if someone does get a CC monster into my link I can at least punish/trade for them, and I likely have more HI than they have CC specialists capable of doing wounds, Thats kind of the point you all keep missing, the list has the ability to cushion particular mistakes, mistakes other lists dont have. You are all just focusing on what you dont do, focus instead on what you do others cant scratch.
Cool, those are good points. Yeah, I figured a Solo Joan for Frostbyte wasn't your ideal. But she's still damn strong. And I think you are right that her, in the Crusade Fireteam, is the toughest Data Tracker in the game right now. And I can see your point on getting Sensor in being tough. There's no "fat" to trim in that list at all (otherwise I suspect you'd have taken the WarCor for another order!) and the only potential point of flex is the second Sierra, which seems to be key to your play. I really look forward to hearing how the double Sierra played out for you.
that actually reminds me, another compromise was the baggage bot. The original list dropped it for the Warcor, a Palbot, and the DA CCWs on hte magister. But at 92 people, VP had the potential to be a serious tie break, and therefor I made the descision to take the Mulebot over the palbot others have mentioned. Given over the course of the tournie it added 60 pts (died in frostbyte) to my list it was well worth it, and Baggage or the tie break was a consistent presence in peoples lists. The baggage was also insurance in supremacy and a reload for the PFs on the magisters
As a PanO player who has been slowly building a Morat force this statement makes me feel that I've made a good choice in picking them up.
its 10 orders, just one is irreg. The tech Bee is glorious, shes a cheap disposable specialist. Given most players keep their head down when facing PanO I feel that she is a great turn 1 button pusher, Xenotech escort or Supply box grabber (as was the case here) With her irreg order and small cost Id actually be perfectly fine with the opponent pulling TO camo on her to try and kill her. in fact I pushed her game 2 with the very idea in mind of using her to bait out my opponents hidden troops. Which worked fantastically and she still got the box. As to the non-buffed TR HMGs. They are in these lists for 2 reasons, 1) to screen my knights from warbands and other trading pieces 2) to be disposable attack pieces that are easy to repair, hard to kill outright, and dont cost me much if they do die. Id like to buff them, but they can and did achieve their roles without the buffing.
Oh, OF COURSE! Baggage explains the choice of the Mulebot over other options, you certainly made the right call there. Did you actually reload the Panzerfausts?
Dashat is popular because it’s so easy to netlist. It’s the Internet’s 2 favorite things each taken to their logical playable extreme: order spam and the smoke-visor-trick. 20 orders is not out of the question while still maintaining a list that has quality playable models. And the Rui Shi core is just about as good of a smoke-visor shooting platform as you could ask for. Not to knock the skill of anyone playing Dashat at high levels, because I’m certain that they could beat the tar out of me with just about any handful of models I could give them. But order count and smoke abuse covers a myriad of sins, and that kind of forgiveness in a list is what it takes to play consistently at top tables. It’s not that Dashat has a higher skill cap than other armies, it’s that the margin for mistakes and bad dice is much wider.
"Teutons are shit!" *Goes 4/5 major wins in seriously competitive play with a Teuton in the link* Very nice
Wrong premise, wrong conclusion. The Teuton is overshadowed by Santiago unless all you really need is the BS 14 Spitfire and you really want those extra points. Turns out that list could really use those extra points elsewhere. Pretty straight forward.
I mean you can't argue with results, is all I'm saying. You have a premise but there is evidence against it.
Always working towards a better game for all of us ;P Yeah man at the end it's "just" a sixth place. While that is a very nice personal achievement lets not forget the same guy came in first with Varuna on his last attempt. Overall ITS stats put MO right at the bottom on the same level with Sectorials where we could probably agree that they could use some help. You know I don't wanna hear undeserved praise for MO, I know you don't want to hear me bashing MO. But this wasn't the thread for it anyway and we both are currently ruining @barakiel 's thread about a topic I'd very much like to explore in general. So lets agree to disagree and take a look at all the nice things in PanO we can agree on.
Personally I don't mind that we're sidetracking any convo. I'd much rather see PanO being discussed, rather than not being discussed. I made this thread to cover a lot of different ground, hoping that one of the topics would stick and trigger some dialog. Speaking personally, I've had lengthy 1 on 1 conversations with both @Teslarod and @daboarder . I recognize the merit and value of both as very skilled players, with valuable and different perspectives on the game. Daboarder has the exceptional quality of taking stuff that noone fully appreciates, and leveraging them. Part of that is being a good player. Part of that is... I don't know, because I still don't always get his lists, but there's a lot to be said for capitalizing on the strength of a unit that your opponent isn't accustomed to fighting. Kicking around list ideas with Daboarder, once you talk about the set of priorities he creates for himself each ITS round, his list-building starts to click. I'm much more comfortable discussing VIRD lists with him, but that's one of the things I like about him... He gives himself a toolset that works for him, couples it with tabletop skill, marches out and beats the stuffing out of virtually everyone he comes across. That's a strong competitive attitude, and he makes it work for him. I'm looking forward to the writeup, because it would be nice to see how his Game 5 went. I agree with @Teslarod that another PanO Sectorial could have probably given him a more powerful set of tools. A better set of tools? Possibly, but no other PanO Sectorial can do the kinds of things that Heavy Infantry knights do, so it's hard to directly compare the two. If Daboarder killed something in close combat, or tied up the enemy up with a link team's high PH Dodging, then that's already leveraging strengths that are (more or less) an MO signature. End of the day, I'd prefer to recognize the competitive achievements of the PanO community. Unlike most of the Infinity online community, we're lucky to actually have competitive ITS players who show up, post regularly, and share their thoughts. I think it's valuable to encourage that.
