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PanOceania in N4

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    ...
    *Teuton sobbing in a corner noises*

    MO really suffers from troops being very similar to each other at the baseline.
    The bug problem plagueing them is thst a lot of them are way too expensive for what they do relative to excellent Santiago Wildcards.
     
    Skoll and theradrussian like this.
  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    This affects Teutons, F-Ks and Hospitallers. Montesa and Sepulchre are distinct enough to have their niche (let's leave the discussion how useful they are aside for now).

    What I'd like to see in MO is getting each of the units in question a proper niche.
    • Hospitallers staying a general purpose HI
    • Teutons being pushed into CC/CQB monster category, with no real long range weapons but access to DTWs, Vulcan/Heavy Shotguns, and Eclipse Grenades
    • Both of the above being able to form basic Core fireteams with Magisters able to join them
    • Santiagos losing Wildcard, getting Boarding Shotgun and Haris options
    • F-Ks becoming Wildcard (1) with Number 2 and specialist/Command & Control options - good hacker, FO, Lieutenant L2, Lieutenant with Advanced Command, CoC choices
    • Sepulchre getting Wildcard (1) as well, and focusing on heavy firepower, with things like RF, HMG, Feuerbach. CoC moving to F-Ks, as mentioned above.
    • Montesa is good, he could use a Spitfire option and AVA 2, that's about it
    • A general doing away with the "elite HI armed only with a Combi Rifle" crap
    • Cleaning up Order Sergeants; fixing their cost (they should cost 11-12 max, looking at Kappas), only those with Auxbots staying unlinkable.
    • Special mention: Konstantinos. I'd really like him to do something unique. For example being able to form OS Haris teams. And of course DeFersen could use a lifting, but there incoming changes to hacking might take care of that.
    This would allow for creating flexible but not over the board fireteams, with OS, Teutons and Hospitallers all being viable options, and F-Ks/Sepulchre adding specialist, good command, and firepower to the mix.

    edit: oh, and MO could lose Tikbalang and get an SHI instead. But that's only because I really want PanO to get one :P
     
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  3. Cadmo

    Cadmo Well-Known Member

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    That is a good idea, but I would change assault for Natural born warrior!!
     
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  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Yeah, thanks no to all of that.
    Agree to disagree to most of it.

    As good a time as any to start is rethinking the whole way things like stats and synergy are priced.
    Looks like N4 gets rid of the automated nesting that plagues Skills like Martial Arts and Camo. There's gonna be a lot of potential to work with.
     
    #164 Teslarod, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Seems the only way.

    In the end CB's ideas will be different from whatever we can come up with, anyway.
     
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  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think it's cool for most knights to have a similar stat line – flavor and specialization can come from profiles and weapon load outs.
     
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  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Yeah, agreed.
    What should go die in a fire is the necessity to have a non standard weapon on anything remotely expensive. Of all HI's I can only think of the Santiago KHD who gets it done by stacking option after option on top of Frenzy.
    And that's still the wrong way of going about it.
    Combi Rifles in general either need to cost an amount proportionate to the troops basecost or need something complicated like automatic SF (which also would have to work with Links somehow)
    You shouldn't be disappointed to run a Combi Rifle on your Link fillers.
     
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  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    If and only if crits are changing in a meaningful way (disjointing them from Burst). We could go the lazy route and make Assault Rifles match Assault Pistols - B4, done.
     
  9. SpectralOwl

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    Belated wish for N4: ORC Specialists that aren't the absurdly vulnerable and expensive AHD. It would make running them as teams a great deal more palateable, and provide a worthwhile option for scoring objectives that can survive a Mine without having to dip into MO. Being able to form a Haris with the Tinbot profile would also help in Sectorials.
     
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  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    SWF already has it.
     
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  11. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Hopefully the knights retain stealth if it is unsynced from MA. Not sure how well they will perform otherwise.

    Not sure if i look forward to N4 with dread or hope at this point
     
  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Changes to crits will make ARM and BTS more meaningful. On the other hand we have no idea how will the hacking change, amongst other things. Too little data.

    One thing I really hope will be looked at is the design of PanO characters. From the ones we have only Joan and Patsy are ok, De Fersen is passable, the rest either sucks or is incredibly boring. I don't want them to get OP, but let them simply bring something different and unique to the table...
     
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  13. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Kirpal is a really "funny" and good profile, until they change in early N3 the text from Chain of Command. So, maybe in N4 chain of command goes one step back and Kirpal come back. :P
     
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  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Or they could exchange CoC for Executive Order and get rid of the whole weird interaction ;)
     
  15. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    I am patiently waiting for the greatsword aristo, maybe she wont be bad...

    Also the word is they are trying to make hacking more relevant. I hope it becomes more relevant overall but less powerful in some spots.
     
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    We've been talking a lot about specific tweaks to specific units, but what I really hope for (and I know this is unlikely to happen, but one can dream) is for the design space shift. Instead of us being the "ranged" faction let us be the "technology" faction. Aleph uses advanced tech to create elite soldiers. YJ has balanced approach. Nomads create weird toys that allow them to play at assymetric warfare. CA is just weird. Less tech-focused armies train their soldiers hard. But PanO approach to a tactical problem would be to create and deploy a tech piece of sorts. New kind of equipment. A specialized visor. New Auxbot type. Every facet of PanO has technology integrated at its core, and its military shouldn't be different.
    • So: no warbands (aside from those MO fanatics in powered armour), but Auxbots on multiple units; basic DTW ones, SWAT, Recon, Anti-Armour, Marksman, Doc/Engineer Support, hell, even Demolition.
    • Individual hackers pretty basic, but very robust EVO support (to contrast: Nomads hackers should be elite on individual basis, with multiple Upgrade programs; Aleph ones should be elite to the point of being overengineered; CA should be weird and dangerous, but again - on individual basis).
    • Some remotes (Pathfinder, Clipper, Fugazi, maybe Bulleteer) routinely integrated into fireteams.
    • Weapons and Equipment focused on allowing to bring PanO firepower to bear, while allowing individual soldiers to stay relatively out of harm's way - AI beacons equipped with Spotlight program, or reintroduction of Markers - which would be basically this, underbarrel launchers for homing beacons with Spotlight. Tinbots with various effects, starting with Spotter.
    • More visors, X-Visors; new, specialized visors, allowing to see through various things aside from smoke - like Nimbus zones; MSV3 being able to see through White Noise/Albedo and Eclipse.
    • More Guided weapons (with N4 rules allowing for countermeasures without making every Guided weapon a template)
    • More Multi weapons, too. Fusilier loadout with Multi Rifle. Multi Spitfire available for some TAGs or Remotes. Multi Pistols more frequent, for example on characters.
    • Supportware for TAGs
     
    #176 Stiopa, Apr 18, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  17. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    As much as I would love something like this, CB needs to figure out how to redesign PanO so it's not using the future equivalent of the Tank Destroy doctrine of WW2. The idea that a military could entirely eschew an easy form of mass obfuscation and more high tech variations for exclusively individualized versions of it and make it available in limited numbers is frankly stupid. As funny as the Stiener scout lance is, it doesnt make for a convincing threat as you have to hand wave away competency.
     
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  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It's not about throwing in money to make up for general incompetence, but about allowing for a broader set of options. Right now we're getting a lot of units very similar to one another (Vargar and to an extent Karhu might be a sign that this is changing.
     
  19. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    Much of the fluff and TT plays that way though. "Why bring smoke for a squad when we can pay for the HI guy to come do the thing for us? What do you mean he cant be everywhere when needed?" The Vargar and Karhu definitely help drive the idea of tech focus and add some get some more skills in play, but when YJ gets a mirror of Karhu in the Ye Mao, are we really pushing the tech envelope?
     
  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Actually neither one of them pushes the tech envelope; they're moving it sideways, with is exactly what PanO needs. The most "hi tech" aspects on them are Albedo on Vargar and double Feuerbach on Karhu (I'm very curious how they'll translate it to the model, assuming the profile will look the same in C1/N4). I particularly like the appearance of secondary weapon, one things I don't like in PanO is how most units, even elite ones, have no backup weapon.
     
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