Weird, everyone I play games against (except that one cheater in Oregon) seems to like me. I've organized large tournaments for the game. I don't "actively shit up the community." What I *do* do, is critique the game as I see it, and I think my viewpoint has good ideas backing it up. My problem is just that the game isn't good enough anymore. N3 had better balance; there's not enough care being given to the game.
Question for PanO players: Say you're playing supplies. There is a Moran prone on a rooftop with an objective in hacking range. There are no ladders up to the rooftop; there is a lip tall enough that you can't see the Moran from any other point on the table. How do you deal with that Moran?
Makes sense since Distance is less of a safety consideration since you have higher amount of mines, and close assault by comparison from SWF to NCA. Though keep going to look for Auxilia in SWF...Where are the Auxbots...
I'm a bard right? So I'll roll persuasion as I shout up to it and ask it to come down to ground level. And I'll wink at the cleric to give me guidance for an extra D4 on that roll.
That’s the neat part… You don’t You just go for the objective with your super expensive WIP12 specialist and hope to push the button. Anyway… Let’s be honest… What do other factions do to counterplay hacking? - they all, except Ariadna, have somehow decent hacking play, and have access to pitchers - when they don’t, they have passive protection (-6 tinbot, unhackable HI (Ariadna)) So why does PanO have neither of the two? This to say I kinda disagree saying that Hacking isn’t one of the most glaring issues of PanO, and might I say one of the biggest issues of Orcs. I can’t recall the last time I fielded an Orc. They got so nerfed since the FT update that I see no reason the take any of them, except for a meme list with Vargar in Winterfor
Spec Fire grenade launchers? Superjumping gunners to gain LOF (Samsa seem perfect for this)? Both are generally useful tools, not just Nomad counterplays.
1.) Glare at the TO/opponent before the game until there is a ladder. 2.) Failing that, reveal the Croc Man next to him and shoot him in the face, or walk up a ZC. 3.) Not Varuna or Vanilla? Harder but workable. Nagas or Trinitarians can efficiently snag the objective and run. 4.) Oh, you're playing NCA? Use the Squalo and pray. 5.) Don't have any of the above models, and the opponent doesn't care about glaring? Simply flip your courtesy list upside down when deploying Hidden Deployment models, and thoughtfully write out a Terrain Sheet as all Infinity tables are meant to have, making sure to note that large and silly building as Destructible Terrain. 6.) Opponent aware that you are not playing N3/ is not an idiot? Coordinated Orders to overwhelm the enemy Hacking net with sheer manpower, or walking your goddamn Trauma-Doc out from your DZ as CB intended will have to do. 7.) Opponent has basic hard ARO and a Moran? Repeat step 1 until successful, optionally replacing "glare at" with "bludgeon". For the humourless, much of the above is a joke.
In SWF I use one of the following specialist to pick up the supplies box: - Infirmarier of Saint Lazarus - Nokken FO - Uma Sorensen - Troll-Hunter Gunnar Lundmark - Flight Officer Agnes Ferreira - Fusilier Paramedic - Blade-Ops - Karhu Paramedic - Vargar FO - Fusilier Indigo Richard Quinn None of them are Hackable so the moran repeater can only Spotlight me at most. If I am afraid of an upcoming Guided Attack there is nothing preventing me to Reset or engineer it out such state once I am back into safety, or just hand out the box to anyone else that is not spotlighted. All of them except the nokken are Haris-Linkable so I am being order efficient in my moving to the box. If I am afraid of the crazykoala, I can first move into the range of the crazykoala one of the other member of the Haris to activate it, and declare dodge with him. Preferiable one that is either absolutely expendable, such as a regular fusilier, or has a good dodge value, or is inmune-shock to patch him up later. In MO the available list turns into: - Infirmarier of Saint Lazarus - Curator - Raveneye Officer - Trinitarian Tertiaries FO - Indigo Brother Konstantinos - Paramedic Crosier In Varuna: - Kamau Paramedic - Fusilier Paramedic - Echo-Bravo Paramedic - Varuna Machinist - Zulu-Cobra FO - Fusilier Indigo Richard Quinn - Croc Men FO - Uma Sorensen Neoterra: - Bipandra - Paramedic Bolt - CoC Bolt - Richard Quinn - Blade-Ops - NCA Machinist - Fusilier Paramedic - FO Auxilia - Uma Sorensen - CSU SAA: - Paramedic Regular - Paramedic Bagh-Mari - FO Bagh-Mari - FO Nagas - Agnes Ferreira - Drakios - Stephen Rao
Changes to hacking will affect more the hacking dependent factions than PanO, it is not a discussion done in isolation, so while I am happy to see discussion done with hacking as it is, changing hacking is a discussion better done in a dedicated thread. Joan is popular because Generic list can get a lot of cheap irregulars that become regulars with Joan. I am expecting Triumph to not be the instigator of the insulting behavior, or having an insulting behavior in general, same goes for everybody, so no I am not "getting mad" I am expecting this to have stopped quite a few post before when I said to stop, and not continue. As I pointed out several times, been right or wrong is no excuse for this behavior. You cannot talk about hacking in isolation changing hacking affects all factions and cannot be done in this thread as it leaves everybody else out and it is not a logical thing to do.
That is interesting, because when I played NCA last year (not many times) I played purely with Bolts my response to close proximity enemies was mostly an abundance of shotguns been shot at BS 19 or 22 is quite a shock to many, not sure how I will handle this concept now, I want to try various new approaches with NCA not so heavily dependent on Bolts.
While this is a problem of a terrible table design it is not an impossible scenario to happen, I have dealt with it in he past. Setting aside that in such a tall building there is a high possibility the objectives are outside of the 8" vertical range and a prone model can reach them safely. PanO has a plethora of super jumping and climbing plus units that can deal with the subject and an extensive repeater network that can be deployed or dodge withing hacking range of the Moran, our guided weapons are as good as the rest, infiltrators that can deploy next to the Moran and many grenade launchers that an deal with the Moran, above are listed a plethora of non hackable units that can extract the supplies and we can use a few camouflage units (some of them forward deploying or infiltrating) to just move to the enemy deployment and shoot either the hackers or the Guided remote if GML is the main threat. PanOceania is not without options to deal with situations.
You guys are still beating that dead horse aren't you ? <one could make some remark to this saying by reinterpreting it in different language and still be relevant description of this sad thread, but let us not stray into this ally at this moment> I just hope you do that with full consciousness of the fact that the only thing coming out of discussions of PanO state is venting out frustration, as nothing of note will be done by CB. See you in a year to tell you that again ;)
Cool, where in the terrain guidelines does it say this is terrible table design? Basically, you're using a No True Scotsman fallacy. "Any table where a PanO player has an unearned disadvantage is a bad table." There are plenty of bad tables at events all over the world then. Let's say it's not. Not so much, no, and the Moran itself isn't hackable. At a PH -3 roll... if you fail those at the start of the game, what do you do? Forfeit? What camo units are you talking about exactly? All of them are either very risky or order intensive for something that Nomads can do during Deployment.
And in most lists you’re going to have at least one of those Climbing Plus or Super Jump units. And if by chance you don’t, you’re likely going to have Drop Bears or WildParrots that make that Moran easier to deal with.
And this is why I advocate for better anti-hacking countermeasures for Pano than a redesign of the hacking mechanics. To be fair, Nomads are a problem Pano face. The thing is that it is totally useless to talk about the situation of the Nomads for the simple fact that such a position would imply that Pano's problem could be solved by nerfing the Nomads. And we all know that's not going to happen. I think we all agree that Nomads have been the main focus of the game's powercreep and that if other factions, Pano for example, had followed that pace of improvements, we would not have 33 pages of rant. Are nomads part of Pano's problem? Yes, but they are a very distant and indirect part of the problem. There are many more urgent things to solve than to be constantly bitching about them. What I do and will continue to do is use them to detail examples of desperate situations for Pano players because I can't think of a more frustrating faction to play against. Maybe Aleph, I can't speak about CA because there's only one CA player in our meta right now and he almost never plays. Apart from Pano I play with O-12 and HB, factions that are infinitely less frustrating, more versatile, and present a much more serious challenge to any of my opponents. I'm going to talk about MO, which is the army I use the most by far. - Infirmarer of Saint Lazarus: no one in their right mind would put this crap on their lists - Curator: This is probably on most MO lists. Viable option. - Raveneye Officer: The best filler in MO. Another viable option - Trinitarian Tertiaries FO: Maybe, but in my meta every time one of these appears it becomes a bullet magnet. All my opponents know that he is an more serious threat than any of the HIs available in MO, and go to great lengths to take him out of the equation. For me it has become almost unusable, except to make my opponent waste orders, but always, sooner or later, he ends up dead. - Indigo Brother Konstantinos: no way - Paramedic Crosier: it is surely part of a core with everything that implies in terms of maneuverability to move it towards the objective. Viable but very risky.
