Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Sep 25, 2020.
Is Pan-O so doomed?
That's just the spanish forums in general, pretty low activity.
I actually wasn't referring to ARO there. A B2 missile in the Active turn is still going to be a threat that an opponent will devote precious orders to take out. Being able to dodge on 16's when it's not good odds to shoot back, means that even mainly just dodging during the reactive turn that the boyg should soak up enough of your opponents orders to be worth his points. And unfortunately I'm pretty sure that we'll see one of those dodge values added to the Tik. :(
Cutter being only 97 points is such a massive points reduction.
All in all I am positive about the new edition. A lot of interesting and fun changes across the board for all armies. One thing that has me a bit stumped is that they have removed most of my favourite lieutenant options, most notably the ZuluCobra from the PanO roster. Don't know if it's a bug or intended yet, since it is still available to VIRD, but I guess I will have to adapt to other uses of the Lt order...
I think Vanilla Pano isn't leaving home without a TAG now. The cost reduction means its still possible to reach 15 models when taking a TAG. Seeing 2 peacemakers in Pano lists is going to be VERY common.
It looks like we simply did not get alot of changes overall in PanO (in comparison to other factions). But this does not mean the general direction of N4 does not help out itself (with the exception of MO, maybe)
The biggest change we got was a fireteam change. Making Karhu wildcard in SWF makes the whole damn sectorial worth playing. lol
@ijw @Koni I noticed that Quinn is missing from Varuna? Is that a big or intentional? I thought he was a varuna character in fluff and his unit logo has the same color scheme as patsy who's another varuna character.
It's been flagged for checking.
I have been looking at our sectorials, and the questions I wanted to ask you guy are: which sectorial do you think is the one that gained most with N4? And what is the sectorial that could have the best performance in N4?
Without having played for months, and therefore without having had the opportunity to try SWF until now, I think with the small modifications that have appeared, Sval makes more sense now and it seems to me is the one who has gained the most with N4. The Karhu seem very powerful (although the wildacard option doesn't appear in the app), Gunnar with his tactical awareness, wildcard option and his cost reduction, becomes a little more interesting for me (in a tactical window format a second group of 5 orders with a Haris with a Karhu and Gunnar gives you 7 orders). The Infirmarer makes more sense in the Hospitaller haris although I don't know if I would use it instead a Hosp doctor. Also the addition of wildcard to Agnes, make it a little more valuable. The reduction of the Boyg also eliminates certain odious comparisons, for example against the Gamma, and in general the cost reduction is good for the sectorial. Without being expectacular, I think Sval is the one who gained the most with the change of edition.
The best aspected sectorial to N4 I think is undoubtedly VIRD, although the feeling that it has lost interesting options, with the tactical window, change of jammers, the maintenance of the cost and the rest of equipment of the Zulu Cobra, etc .. leaves me a bitter taste with this sectorial that was certainly my favorite for fluff and playability.
The good thing I see is the option to include excellent TAGs like the Cutter and the Squalo and the changes of Montesa Knight, I like de red fury option for 34 pts. Finally the croc men becomes more valuable now with the changes of ZC, this is also nice, because is a great unit.
What do you think?
3 LRL Helots + 2 Fugazi only costs 41 points. I think Varuna can make a competitive 259 point list which leaves room for these strong DZ defense options.
That's a lot of words to say Fugazi is down by a point...
Your missing my point. People are saying the traditional Helot and Fugazi defense of Varuna is dead in N4's 15 model meta. I'm just reminding people that this is a very cheap DZ defense that leaves you with 250+ points for the rest of your list.
I do believe the burst 2 fugazis are gone. It was fun but also such a passive playstyle that i don't mind to see it go.
Even without b2, they're fine. I hardly took them with the evo for it and they did their job good enough.
I'm not sure a list can afford to take 3 Irregular orders whose only role is sitting there. At least warbands can utilize 2 pseudo orders with impetuous and irregular, and dispense smoke to help the order efficiency of other units. Helots are purely defensive, their role is to sit there and die, and I think Tac Window really highlights the limits of that 1-dimensional role.
I still think it can be worth it. Pano lacks of a lot of the ways other factions have to add extra orders to a small secondary group, like NCO, tactical order, LT +1 order. Which means it can be better to focus on one core combat group and the second one just being DZ defense units like helots. Especially when as Pano we should be taking advantage of the buffs to TAGs in N4.
I think a Cutter list is the notable exception, and I've definitely planned for 2 or 3 helots and a Tech Bee to support a Cutter.
For general objective based play though, I definitely like to have Group 2 devoted to Engineering or Doctoring (PanO benefits heavily from these support roles) as well as light combat and secondary duties (sensor, Classifieds.) Since we lack smoke and camo to bypass the enemy, having Group 2 handle those kinds of roles means you can dedicate Group 1 to necessary combat.
Based on the ForCo link options for Bolts and ORCs as well as the profiles listed (tracking that most of them might get changed come November. What's you're predictions for NCA?