This is a public service announcement: Out in the world, discussing things, it's clear that the rules regarding reloads aren't widely understood. There are a lot of people who are making the (very reasonable) assumption that 0 reloads = 0 ammo = no shooty gunny. Running out of ammunition is actually NOT the same thing as having 0 reloads. I have cited the relevant rules below. "This ammunition can be initially recorded as having zero Reloads. (Remembering that since Reloads are not required to fire a ranged weapon and are not expended through normal use of the weapon, this rating indicates that the character has a small supply of the ammunition in question.)" pg 339 "Attrition: In addition to their normal use, a GM can remove a resource from a character as a complication. If a character has no resources of that type remaining, the GM can instead declare that the character has completely run out of the resource. (This can be indicated on the character sheet by noting “−1” in the related resource.) The effect of running out of a particular resource depends on the type of resource (as described below), but usually prevents the character from taking related actions until their supply of the resource has been restored." pg 355 It's actually that second part, which comes from the generic rules for ALL resources (not just Reloads, but including Reloads), which is the most important. This has been a public service broadcast.
Jesus, I was scrambling my brain trying to figure out what the fuck you were talking about and how it was related to the Baggage rule in Infinity. It literally took me 5 whole minutes to realize that you were talking about the RPG. I should probrably go home.
Very Useful Rules precisations, thanks for the postings about. . . Particularly useful when "Hi-Tech Miniaturized Ammo Reloads" are employed by wealthy Characters from the richest parts of the Human's Sphere Hyperpowers (I assume far less encumbering and weighty that current R.W. Ordnance). . . Unfortunately I will have to do a "Personal Customization" in My R.P.G. Game where Hand-Held Grenades and 40mm. Grenade Warheads will feature a lot. . . Being based in Ariadna where ALL he guns are "Low Tech Brass Cased Ammunition" (even for "Human Sphere" Tourists) UNLESS they are CLEARLY labeled as "Imported Hitech Foreign Guns" I will have to check PROPERLY the number of Clips and Single Shot Reloads that any given Character could have, ESPECIALLY for the different kind of Grenades (a Smoke one is far less crucial that ONE MORE T2 Frag Antipersonnel with Teseum Shards). . . . .!!!
Page 356, Collector's Edition: "Running out of Reloads means that the weapon has completely run out of ammunition and is unable to be used for further attacks until additional ammunition is purchased." I see and agree with your point, but I think they done goofed, and wrote the completely opposite in this part of the book (unless you assume 'run out of' to mean reach -1). Personally, I've ruled just moved the scale one up, so the players run out of ammo when they reach 0, but can spend their last bullets in a desperate attempt to down an enemy. Though I will add to the conversation that I'm not entirely convinced of the reload system. But I think it might be because my players generally generate momentum, which can give the same effect (though without the N die for damage). Question, how many reloads do you generally let your players carry?
So, that is the next page from what I quoted on 355 and is part of the same rules. Pg 355 explains HOW you "completely run out of ammunition" and Pg 356 explains only WHAT is the result of that. There's no contradiction, you just have to read the whole section on Resources, starting on Pg 355 and then continuing on Pg 356, not just the section on Pg 356 alone. Having the "0 Resource" point exist is important, because it represents the presence of enough to get by, but not enough to get bonuses (which is entirely eliminated if you "shift up" the point of running out). I've found that once you are in combat players are pretty keen to spend the Momentum that they generate on extra damage or extra attacks, so Reloads get play that way. Extra damage starts to get pretty popular when you throw armoured opponents at your PCs. So far, an unlimited amount. I'll have NPCs react appropriately if anyone starts hauling around enough ammo to be obvious (somewhere around the 15-20 reload point) and probably draw the line somewhere soon after 20 in total. Yeah, I think the overall tech level is important to keep in mind. A lot of ammo isn't even bullets, but just nanoforge feed. Grenades, flamethrowers, missiles etc all have the Munition quality. That means they are using a Reload every time they attack. So I wouldn't go too hard out on limiting total Reloads, otherwise those things get too hard to use at all.
@AdmiralJCJF . . . You are right, I confused the "Basic Reload" rules with the Munition subquality of Special Weapons (usually very Heavy Ordnance). . . Because My Game is set in "Backwater Ariadna" then I assumed for sanity's sake a lot of Generalizations; Grenade Launchers are essentially "Very Heavy Shotguns" as far as potential ammunition goes and Shotguns are essentially "Very Light Grenade Launchers". . . I'm even thinking to leave 40mm. Grenade Slugs (such as Contemporary Ammunitions of U.S.Army Launchers such as the venerable M79 "Blooper", the Underbarrell M203 and Belt-Fed Tripod Mounted Mk19) as EQUAL to carried, hand-thrown Grenades and Smoke Bombs. . . Essentially is the choice of the Player to have the "Slug Shell" (remember that R.W. Grenade Launchers are "Unrifled Barrells" like R.W. Shotguns, so essentially just "Big Pipes" of the Grenade Circumference) charged in the Underbarrell / Riot Grenadier / Police Precision "Big Pistol" or whatever and shot with the usual rules or JUST "Primed" by releasing a specific Pin and thrown by hand as a "Pineapple" Fragmentation Grenade. . . Also thinking to allow a special Teseum-Alloyed Barrell (far more costly than standard Stainless Steel ones) to allow the "Inside Explosion" of a Charged Shell / Slug / Warhead to allow for special effects (a Fragmentation Grenade could be "Shot" and explode at basic Radius at the impact point OR COULD be "Exploded" inside the reinforced barrell that channels and funnels the shard, creating essentially a "Flechette Heavy Shotgun Shot"; similar an Incendiary Grenade could be shot at usual ranges or detonated inside the Teseum Barrell that will convey the White Phosporous Blast as a "Dragonsbreath Round"). . . Quite absurd from a "Real World Ballistic P.O.W." but Teseum is the "Magic Handwavium Mithril" of the Setting and so could explain a lot of inconsistences (such as the Illogicity of Humanoid T.A.G. weight distribution); this will considerably cut on "Reload Book-keping" and allow even more Tactical Flexibility from the P.C. and N.P.C. gameset combat speed. . . . .!!! Also because the Mercenary that are the Backers of the P.C. Squad practically "Sits Over" enormous depots of Teseum (either Raw Ore or even Refined Ingots, ALL confiscated to "Foreign Smugglers" !!) they have the Options to have T2 "Single Reload Munition" counted SINGULAR cartridges of their chosen ARIADNAN Sidearm or Longarm that they could load in the open firing chamber to have T2 Effects (or even weirder ones by variating % of Teseum Alloys and Bullett-Shapes). . .
So allowing Grenade Launcher munitions to be used as regular Grenades as an option? I like it as a concept. And allowing Grenade Launchers to fire in a "shotgun" mode? Again, great idea. I'd be SUPER careful with T2 'though... it's amazing. Like, game shapingly amazing. "Don't ever want to use anything else because this is objectively the best munition in the game by an order of magnitude" good.
Well, I'm also imagining to Rule-Stat also T1 Ammunition (more % Teseum and so some kind of "Hyper Armor Piercing" reinforced by Conical Shaped A.P.F.S.D. needle-cavity Warheads) and also T3 Ammo (experimental "Super Manstopper Dum-Dum" filled Teseum Shards, by-products of smelting and lathering, immersed in "Soft Lead" kind of Non-Full Metal Jacket Head; they will act as a sort of "Worse Hydrostatic Shock"). . . The Game is about a Squad of 3 T.A.G. Pilots and 3 "Gene-Engineered Human Sized Monsters" (well, just ONE is a Runihura Haqqislamite Super-Soldier, the others are a Veteran Morat Daturazi-Krakot "Renegade" and a Noble Caledonian Dogwarrior with an Artificial Cyberarm of Teseum !!). . . Extra Ammunition with weird usages will be the sort (such as "Vanilla A.P." as more plentiful than basic F.M.J. ones) and I will Houserule some "Balancing Factors" for some Ammunition Qualities that will allow TOO MUCH Advantages that are not countered by "Super Rare / Hyper Costly" or even more. . . T2 and Armor Piercing are great but when facing Foes that have NOT "Hard Armour" (so the aforementioned Runihura, Scar-Enhanced Antipodes, Chimeras, Morlocks hopped on Combat Drugs and all manner of Nastyness) will LOSE the Advantages than normal "Manstopper Ammo" or nasty Incendiary Ones will have. . . Or even the "Humble" Chain-Rifles and Chain-Colts, absolutely aghast against Heavy Infantry Armour, but a true terror against "Hordes of Nasty Critters" (what kind of "Nasty Rodents" could evolve on Planet Dawn when the Dominant Native Lifeform is Antipodes ???). . . . . Also, what the Player Character have ALSO their enemies could field easily (is a Game of Teseum Smuggling and Counter-Teseum Smuggling). . . JUST a matter of "Pure Cost" will not be enough to counterbalance as the Game Rules are TOO MUCH swerved towards favouring Rich Hyper-Elite Dilettantes (such as "Corporate Golden Kids" playing Soldiers) against the "True Grit" kind of not so rich Veteran Mercenaries. . .
Yeah, I've been meaning to post this on the Modiphius forums but it would have taken a necro and building an account. The 0 = no more reloads, -1 = out of Ammo is actually quite sensible.
Basically it turns on the plain English of 'Reload'. Which was a light bulb moment. And Re: T2 yeah we were building a Multi Sniper for an Ariadnan players TAG and as soon as you add T2 ammo it's like 'umm, just don't use anything else'. In a 'regular' power-level games I'd seriously consider giving T2 ammunition the Munition trait.
Specifically Things that I considered. . . It was as in the venerable, vintage Cyberpunk 2020 R.P.G. where, in the Basic Manual there was a clear "Tactical Consideration" to choose between Regular Full-Metal Jacket Ammo with no special Bonus nor Flaws, Armor Piercing that halved the "Protection Factor" of a typical realistic armour (a 9mm. Parabellum inflicted 2d6 Damages versus the 5 "Armour Points" of a Light Kevlar Jacket, the 10 Points of a Reinforced Flak Jacket and the 15 of a Full Riot Police Suit; "Total Bomb Suit" where on the 20 Points but where more encumbering than Medieval Knight Full-Plates !!) BUT that halved ALSO the "Flesh Wound Damage" or Manstopper Dum-Dum that were DEVASTATING over unprotected Flesh or "Soft Armour" (like the Subdermals Biografts of Infinity are)but where totally wasted over WW1 Metal Helmets or a kitbashed "Torso Plates" like the ones improvised by Wild West Bandits. . . And then appeared the horrible "A.P.E.X. Ammo" that were the bane of anything as Armor Piercing Explosives cut in half Armour Point Protection BUT not Damage to flesh or soft mechanisms; even make them costin 5 Times regular ammunition was not enough and was ONE of the many "Primary Issues" that caused the Roleplaying Game to fold down on itself. . . If a Ammunition is "Too Good To Not Always Use It" then, fo MY Campaign something is broken, and MUST be addressed. . . The Problem is that Infinity Tabletop Wargame is an "Abstraction of Quasi-Realistic Warfare" and then it was "Almost Shoehorned" into another "Abstract System" as D20 Modiphius is; C.B. Staff and Chris Birch of London have made an EXCELLENT Adaptation, but PERFECTION is NOT of this World, and what is "Good Enough" for a specific Game, will not be good for others. . . The Reload / Munition Rules are for an "Abstract Cinematic Hollywood" kind of Combat, where Heroes and Mooks have "Just Another Spare Clip" as dictated by "Scripted Needs" but sometimes this is not so good. . . Also the "Typical Infinity R.P.G." Scenario is with "Semi-Plainclothed Cyberpunk Detectives" that AT MOST hide some form of Medium Infantry Kevlar Suit UNDER a "Bladerunner Trench" that also help disguise a Folding Stock S.M.G. or a Sawed-Off Light Shotgun and some REALISTIC Ammo Magazine Counts, when they are investigating the seedy underbelly of the Human Sphere or the typical Disco / Strip-Clubs where the Enemy is equally geared "Opfor Secret Agents" / "Mafyakuza" Thugs / Light Cyborg Bouncers. . . The generic Ammo Reload Stuff means that a Character on dire straits could always "Sack" the fallen enemies, as it was suggested in the "Quickstart Scenario" Endgame where it was suggested to directly take Guns and Ammo Reloads from the fallen Allied Security or EVEN from the Morat Vanguard Aggressors (even if the Combined Army employs TOTALLY different Gun Technology). . . I prefer to "Houserule" that Entertaining take precedence over "Realistic Rule Lawyering" UNLESS is an excuse to Min-Maxing at the EXPENSE of other Players (I DO NOT MIND Player Characters mowing down "Hordes" of Enemy Thugs; they are a Squad of 6 P.C. with occasional Allied Mercs numbering in the Decimals, while I have a WHOLE Human Sphere worthy of potential foes to send their way !!!). . . Also @inane.imp there is a clear distinction between how many 40mm. Grenade Warheads could a Human-Sized Character sensibly and logically carry around (even on Clip Belts and Ammo Backpacks) and what a Tactical Armoured Gear optimized for Paramilitary Mercenary Operations could have in its Frame; even on "War Battlefield" shooting around gallivantly on Full-Auto will means, sooner or later, the "Ominous Click" of a empty chamber. . . But don't worry "Field Reloads" are what Baggage Drones are for (hopefully more effectively than the "Wheelbarrow" style of Matrix 3 poor "Suicidal Ammo Porters" !!!). . .
Yeah, just slap the Munition trait onto T2 and you can probably call it a day. It's as good as the Heavy ammunitions which already have that automatically.
In Vietnam, the grenadiers had bandoleers of ~18 rounds. Later, they got specialized vests that carried 40 rounds. I'm not sure what they're up to now, but MOLLE gear is modular enough that it should be able to carry close to 40 rounds, at the expense of standard rifle magazines. A TAG should probably have belts of grenades, those are currently 36 rounds (because that's how many fit in an ammo box) but it's easy to link multiple belts together if your ammo hopper is big enough.
You're talking 1 day of supply for high intensity Infantry combat in a largely mounted / air mobile context. So it's pretty much the upper limits of ammo carriage. But yeah the quantity of Ammo is extensive in a 'full combat ensemble': 6 - 9 Rifle 'Reloads' 1-3 Pistol 'Reloads' ~ 2-6 Grenades Seems about right for personal weapons (and potentially a little conservative). Add squad gear and that's 1-2 'Reloads' for a HMG, potentially additional Grenades for the grenadier and then specialist EO (LAWs, explosives, smoke Grenades etc). Part of the point of the system though is to abstract this so that the PCs end up with enough options to be tactically interesting but with enough constraints to be meaningful. Re: TAG armaments. The GLs in question are underslung LGLs on a Geckos Combis so use the standard Nomad 'rotary' set up. So 6-8 loaded on the weapon not linked like an AGL would be. They're retrofitted so I have no idea how you'd reload them during combat. Which is the other point: the difference between ready use and available ammunition. Ready use restricts what you can use during a single scene, whereas what you have available limits you until resupply (not withstanding a crewmember climbing onto the roof of their vehicle to reload the RWS while under fire). But yeah, a Lizards HGL I'd treat like an AGL with a large internal magazine.
Well, the standard US magazine pouch holds 2-3 rifle magazines and 2 hand grenades. You could stuff a 40mm grenade in the grenade pouches, but 40mm grenades are not currently designed to be thrown. In one of my books, grenades intended for team use are carried on the back of the armor, so that someone else can grab and use them. I don't know how ... true that is for current ops.
I, confusingly, used grenades interchangeably for both thrown and fired types. The 2-6 I referred to would be hand grenades. I have zero experience with 40mm grenades so can't really say: however, the concept of carrying them so that they can be optionally accessed by (or alternatively passed to) a second person jibes with my *very* limited experience regarding fireteam MG ammunition (admittedly in older style webbing).
My experience with 40mm. Grenades come JUST from "Anti-Riot" Police Ops of more or less 15 Years ago. . . We employed Heckler & Koch AG36 styled Grenade Launchers, but in weird "Pistol Configurations" instead of the mounted underbarrell configurations that it was meant for; also while We of the Carabinieri (Military Police, akin to Marines performing Security and M.P. roles for the U.S.Navy) employed clearly "Army Gear" the "Polizia di Stato" (Civilian Police, less militarized and more syndacated) agents that were performing Riot-Squad duties with us had different Grenade Launchers that were SPECIALLY fitted to NOT allow any other Ammunition than Smoke / Tear Gas kind of Ordnance. . . Both of Us did not carry the Grenade Warheads in standard webbing on the Riot Uniforms but had specially crafted "Synthethic Canvas Packs" that were usually kep sealed as sometimes the Gas Ordnance leaked some Tear Gas Vapors (Italy is a little weird in this regard; I personally polished in an Armoury some Guns that were "21th Century Hi-Tech Prototypes" along with WW2 Surplus Vintages, all with their nice Ammo Boxes, metal for the more recent ones, wooden crates stamped with the "Old Italian Kingdom" seal for the more antiquated stuff !!!). . . Those Pouches were considered to be filled with multiples of 5 Warheads (almost empty for Ten, better filled with 15 and almost bursting if filled with 20) but, designed for employ in a controlled Civilian Riot Engagement, would have been ABSOLUTELY AWFUL on a Tactical Battlefield Operation. . . The so-called "Giberne" (Ammo Pouches in Italian) that are sewn or attached to belts in Army Uniforms of Italian Military / Paramilitary Forces (so I think that they stick to N.A.T.O. Regulations) were programmed to keep 3 Ammo Clips (straight ones of the 20 7,62mm. Rounds; very antiquated style, rather than more modern "Banana Clips" of the 30 capacity) for the venerable Beretta M59 F.A.L. (NOT to be confounded with Fabrique National from Belgium; even if they both meant "Light Automatic Rifle"; with "Fucile Automatico Leggero" in Italian and "Fusil Automatique Legèr" for Belgian French) but, in a pinch were PERFECT to safely hold TWO of the standard 40mm. Grenade Launcher Ammunition. . . . . . . . Remember that the "Hand Grenade SAME AS Grenade Launcher Ammo" is a kind of Personal Homebrewed Rule that I want to try in My Game, as to relieve some confusion of too similar Weapons for the Abstract System of Infonity R.P.G. by Modiphius. . . What I want to try is that ALL Shotguns from Ariadna (Hand-held Light Shotguns, Underbarrell "Masterkey", Pump Action Boarding Shotguns and "Full-Auto C.A.W.S." Vulkan Shotguns) are chambered in the Cal.10/.0 heavier ordnance RATHER than the "Civilian R.W." Cal.12/.00. . . This is a trick STRAIGHT from the old, venerable "Talsorian Games Cyberpunk 2020" (the "Original System" of Infinity when it was JUST an R.P.G. Campaign, rather than the excellent Background for a Tabletop Miniature Wargame !!) where Cal.10 Shotgun Slugs are EQUATED to 20mm. "Micro-Grenade Warheads". . . At the same times the weird "Heavy Shotguns" of Infinity Wargame (basing on extant Stuff) are in reality "Light Grenade Launchers" (similar to the Vietnam Age "China Lake" Pump-Action Prototype rather than Drum-Revolver "Riot Police Models") will be EQUATED to Man-Portable Multi-Shot "Riot / Army Grenadiers" AND with the Glue Guns of Engineers (in MINE style of Ariadna they are "Simple Riot G.L." filled with "Akrylat Goo" Ammunition). . .!! . . . . . As a "Size Rule" while a basic "Hand Grenade" (and so also a 40mm. Warhead) have a Close Range for Area (but I have to check THOROUGLY the Rules) for a "Offensive Fragmentation" kind of Ordnance, able to effect from 3 to 5 Targets if ruled close enough, the "20mm. Shotgun Slugs" if setted to Frag. would have JUST a "Hand-To-Hand" Area of Effect, so they will be able to effect JUST two targets if they are in VERY CLOSE proximity (unless they are packed exceptionally tight, such as 3 Foes in a very enclosed vehicle cockpit). . . These Rules I intend to TRY and CORRECT with the help of the Players of My soon-upcoming R.P.G. Campaign. . . By the way, if a Character is particularly enamored of "Sidearm Handguns" a sawed-off "M79 Blooper" and / or M203 in Pistol Configuration will be a SINGLE SHOT 40mm. "Grenadier Pistol" while a peculiarly well-made "Semiauto Light Shotgun" will be akin to the GONG designed by Masamune Shirow (a 5 Shots-in-A-Clip "Shotgun Pistol" employed by Deunan Knute of "Appleseed" and by Batou of Section9 in the "Ghost-In-The-Shell: Innocence" Anime Movie). . .
