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Oracle for Infinity

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Wolf, Apr 22, 2018.

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CB should provide ongoing, formal clarifications of Infinity rules in the style of Oracle for MTG

  1. I wholeheartedly agree (and might add further or additional suggestions)

    60.3%
  2. I somewhat agree (and might add provisos or alternative suggestions)

    25.9%
  3. I somewhat disagree (and might provide relevant explanations or arguments)

    6.9%
  4. I entirely disagree (and might provide relevant explanations or arguments)

    5.2%
  5. I don't know what we're yelling about! https://youtu.be/amrTOsYa4sA

    12.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I feel little reason to think that the one who told me was lying, since he also provided some examples, of which the only one I remember is that a TAG without a pilot still controls a console...

    But anyway, a lot of questions get asked in the Warcor forum, but somehow the only way to get those is... if a warcor tells you -.-U
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    What help is it to know what question was asked? They don't get answers there. :(
     
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  3. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    That, of course, is its own issue.
     
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected, then! I don't think I've done anything Epic-related since about 2008, so no wonder I was out of date on the rules situation.
     
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  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    In reality, there aren't that many divisive rules queries for N3, tbh. It's not like there's a crisis of unplayability.

    The problem for me is that some of the rules clarifications, while now clear, seem nonsensical. The interaction between V: Dogged and V: NWI with other rules for example, specifically Shock with 2+ Wounds and G: REM Presence. I know how it works now, it's clear, but it's pretty silly that G: Remote Presence and Valour L2+ essentially is now an extra wound (as if the Su-Jian needed it, and I don't believe it was playtested that way because ehhh?!?) and that shooting an Asura with Shock Ammo puts her unconscious because it means she can't use V:NWI.

    So really what I would like to see is 1) a clear-up of the minor queries we have, and 2) for the resolution to be written (or re-written even, overruling past clarifications) with the intention of maintaining the balance and costings of troops in the game, rather than "oh well it makes most logical sense for the rule to work X way even though Y way is clearly the spirit of the rule."
     
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  6. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    So id like to know where you are all getting answers from if you dont mind @ijw.

    The big debates make interesting reading nowadays and shows you werent disagreeing with the other people on the lists including @psychoticstorm and @A Mão Esquerda. but ok maybe i missed it in hundreds of pages over at least three different threads i didn't see @Cervantes3773 or any of the others mentioned in those lists at all. So do you guys still talk to each about rules questions and can you talk to the Spanish guys still or is there no way to do that any more. Like you were all a team then but it seems like only you and PS and esquerda are left whats the system now?

    edited.
     
    #86 Sanjuro, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  7. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    Well maybe its not divisive in your meta but in mine we're half and half on *that* rule and sorry but its more than just eyeballing minis or not. Its what you said about balance and costing of troops because if a dozen of you pay swc on special ammo and the other dozen just say they don't get hit by it then that changes the value of what one half has paid. Now really not trying to start a fight with the aussies about that rule but even they will admit that if theres one price for your troops but two ways to play them then that makes two different games right?

    And yes we liked bostria goofing around in their new tunguska video but would it really be so bloody difficult for cb to keep the camera rolling to show us how they play the game and cut it into a new video?
     
  8. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    etc. no he just meant only people on the team could know what their individual contributions were so its a bit of a dick move for anyone outside the team to say they know who did what right?
     
    #88 Sanjuro, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  9. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I disagree. There are several contentious issues in the rules that make the game only playable by gentlemen's agreement IMHO, including 'intent', shooting troops from out of LOF when you are in front of them (especially as this relates to superjump / shooting from above), how sixth sense is handled, whether reactive dodge makes you not block LOF, how ammunition types (eg shock) work with hacking programs, what the actual definition of Hacking Area is correctly and how it relates to ZOC of repeaters, what exactly a Repeater counting as a hackers ZOC for hacking reactions actually means etc. This is fine for the kind of casual way CB seem to play their own game, but it can become problematic in competitive play, especially those across metas who have different gentlemen's agreements about how to handle them.

    When CB FAQs these issues very inconsistently and in non clear language, then often insisting on RAW when clarifying even when the RAW is far from clear etc it only makes it more difficult IMHO.
     
  10. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    So with world coming up for Xwing, they just released a world's FAQ. This faq is not on the official faq and is honestly more of a hot fix then anything. I mean the judges are going to have to make rules calls and they need to have an idea on how to answer those.
    Everyone else is invited to use the world's FAQ tell the official faq is fully tested and updated.

    So as I understand it Infinity has something of an important tournament in the not to distant future.

    Out of all the official ITS tournaments this is the MOST official, followed by 66.

    At this point we do not know what "house rules" this important tournament is going to use but maybe we could all/mostly agree to use those rullings as a temporary solution for other TO's?
     
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  11. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    Xagroth said he'd been told there was an FAQ at Inter' last year, whereas IJW said he'd seen or heard no evidence for its existence, so rulings from Corvus Belli seem to be in the same category as alien visitations - no hard evidence but some of us want to believe! :smile:

    Someone somewhere has to actually take a stance on something so that the whole process can move forward. Organizers of events must take formal positions on situations and accept that if their stance later appears to be misguided or even incorrect it doesn't really matter in the long run if there's a level playing field for the event itself.

    Consider this: would you prefer to play in a) a tournament where you clearly know in advance that they'll enforce a rule you personally disagree with, or b) in a tournament where no-one knows what the stance on that rule is or not?
     
    #91 Wolf, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It's almost like you can talk to the TO beforehand and ask.
     
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  13. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    For the Love of Bostria yes, let's not go there please (he said, nervously checking the exits :wink:) but yes, we take the point that a lack of rulings from Corvus Belli is indeed divisive if the balance of the game is affected, and not just the style of play.

    Perhaps yes, but agreements are only really workable if they're written down and published or at very least announced in some way. Players, clubs or TO's can reasonably make up and apply any rule they like, but if it's known in advance then everyone knows where they stand and if players don't like it, then they don't have to play the game, join the club or enter the tournament.

    I've written loads of club and tournament rulings over the years and always found it surprisingly hard work, even when I was entirely clear about the situation I was trying to describe. So one of the problems we have with all this (and that @Del S touched on in their early post) is that it's probably going to be hard work to describe these contentious situations and clearly explain how to handle them.
     
  14. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    Methinks you missed the point, which is that if a perception one way or another already exists externally then letting the people on that list decide if they are fit for the task or not isn't going to work. It's not a dick move to develop your own opinions on someone over time, that's literally just part of being a human.

    Sound advice if ever I've heard it, and something I've done many times if I felt like a ruling was critical to my list.
     
  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Hell that was the advice I always give when running them, if you arent sure and there isnt a convention ask.

    If you dont ask then whatever the TO says on the day is absolute word of god, no arguing allowed, even if CB rule that you are "Correct" at a later point.
     
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  16. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    Yeah nice but youre obviously wanting to say that pyschoticstorm isnt a legit member of the rules team so you can disrespect him on rulings LOL. Running people down anywhere makes you look weak but here where the guy youre running down is a valued member of the forums and helped create the rules we play means the "perception that exists externally" :) is youre pulling a dick move.
     
  17. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    I will add this and only this to the thread, I think it is sufficient.

    It is from another thread, but it is the information you need.

     
  18. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    Yes obviously thats whats supposed to happen Mr Logic but the rest of us noticed that it isnt happening because the forum is full of people arguing about g sync engineers and engage up walls and bikes going through narrow doorways right?

    This is on point and all our meta used to play that gentlemans agreement for positioning which was great until we realized the so called gentlemens agreement just means one guy saying to the other "if you dont let me avoid your k1 ammunition aros then youre not a gentleman" so i guess ill leave that mini in the case then? Again really not trying to troll but no one feels good about this any more, CB arent doing anything and the whole reason this thread is popular is because the TO *doesnt* have an answer.
     
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  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Be more aggressive with your deployment.

    Or maybe step down the ammount of scatter on the table. That should stop players being able to creep past the LoF of your ARO pieces.
     
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  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    @Sanjuro I was specifically responding to the idea that you go to a tournament worried about how the TO plays a particular interaction. This is not an actual problem.

    I think unresolved rules issues are least at issue in tournaments because TOs make a decision and that's it. If a TO said for a tournie 'you can't stick people who Engage to walls unless you yourself are on a wall' that's cool and works for that tournie. I don't know anyone who'd actually have an issue with that process.

    The issue is more general, and in that I agree with Hachiman Taro's point wholeheartedly.
     
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