Open vs. Closed Information: Camo and Deployment

To be frank, why not take photos of deployment? It makes it easier to verify later, and a lot of people do that sort of thing as a simpler alternative to writing out elaborate written descriptions for hidden deployment.

It's a hidden information game, there's a LOT of situations where you're going to have to trust that the player knows what they're doing, and then find out whether they made a mistake later. Suppose they're walking three camo markers across the table, a different troop profile under each marker. How do you know they're not using the wrong MOV attribute for those troopers? You don't, unless they do something impossible like resolve a 12" single Move; but you'd be wise to pay attention in case of unfortunate mistakes.

 

Thanks, I missed that small rules change.

 

For MOV you just need to watch. If it's S2, and moves over 4" it's not legal. If the second move is over 2", and it's MI it's also unlikely to be a legal move. For most models that are not S2, and camoed in some manner, the faction + size gives it away. The only S5 + Camo token in PanO is the Uhlan, the only S7 TO Camo marker is the Cutter.

 

I do that : When deploying, everyone check mission/list on their phone so during deployement I will check the mission then (descretly) snap and edit a picture of the table/part of it to mark HD location. This way my opponent cannot know if I have something in HD or not.

 

did the same last time, i found it much more quicker than placing the marker and taking a picture of it deployed. (my usual procedure before was to annotate the position on a sheet)

 

I usually turn my back at some point during deployment to let my opponent record any private information and ask them to do the same.

Just make sure you turn the shutter sound off on your phone camera so you don't give the game away! (off topic, did Japan ever pass that law that forced phones to have an audible camera shutter sound?).

 

https://theuijunkie.com/japan-camera-sound/

 

I can't decide if I'm appalled that it was needed or impressed that the uptake and enforcement by carriers was so unanimous.

 

as this article shows, and another i found, the government never made it into a law. It is the carrier which made it a rule and phone manufacturer have complied.

 

That's what's so impressive, I'm not used to seeing the private sector actually do things for the public good without making a profit along the way or being forced to buy law!

 

@solkan the problem is that cheaters could take multiple pics and reveal the one that's most useful based off of the opponent's positioning and how the game has gone. Better to indicate it unambiguously; I use a pad with x and y coordinates from my left table corner.

 

Huh, I've been regularly using TO for seven years now and it never once crossed my mind to do that!

 

you mean never crossed your mind to cheat by taking several pictures, or to pre-measure a series of (x,y) coordinate from your table corner ?

 

Cheat by taking multiple pictures

 

Same here. I guess we are both lucky to play in a meta that is not flooded by cheaters :)
I sometime have my back turned for a long time, but never occurred to me that my opponent could be taking multiple picture, i trust him to play by the rules.

(in my case the hidden deploy without Infiltration was a badly learned rule mistake; the new player not realizing infiltration and TO had to be distinctly specified on a profile)

 

I've only run into blatant cheating in the 40k tournament scene, never in Infinity, but it's worth thinking about. @Robock premeasuring basically already exists during the deployment step because you have to see if models are in their deployment zones.

 

you only measure the lines you need, like the 12", 16", and 24" lines; as mentioned previously in the current thread knowing exactly how far away from your table edge you are (5", 6", 19", etc.) is not Open Info and not Private Info, it is simply info you don't have and don't share. You can look around to see where models and markers are deployed but not note their exact distance from the edge. Hidden Deployment is not different.

If you could measure the (x,y) of your deployed models in order to not place them out of 12" then there would be no need to verify ZoC as you would know exactly where everyone is in a (x,y) grid. Fact is, you don't need to know a model is exactly 8" away from your edge in order to know that he is ok because 8<12. You just need to mark the 12" line and place your model no farther than that.

 

@Robock Nowhere does it say you can mark the 12" line. What's more, there's nothing preventing you from placing a model, then measuring to the 12" line, then noting where on the tape the model rests. By necessity, if we're comparing quantitative values, we get to know what they are. When a model fires at another and you go to measure the LoF for range, you get to know the exact range, not just whether they're within 0-8" or 16-24" or whatever.

 

Nothing stops hybrid solutions. Note down roughly where the model is and take a photo of exactly where it is. Makes it hard to cheat, though I don't think anyone has ever checked photos or notes in my meta yet.

 

Not sure what you can do about people cheating in Infinity, the hidden information system is pretty wide open to a variety of cheats that could easily go undetected.