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Onyx into Vanilla?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Obeisance, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    Just as an example, my last list was something like :

    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] CHARONTID Lieutenant (Multispectral Visor L3) Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 78)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE Plasma Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7)

    4 SWC | 285 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    for the HI morat, I like the Sogarat, as a hard-to-remove turret, with good armor and automedikit on 15. The Suryat is a bit cheaper... but in Vanilla I'd consider a Xeodron also for a few more points. The thing is, in Vanilla you often have Mnemonica, so you're not in LoL (except if you do not activate it because you think you can repair your unconscious LT, of course). The point is, you pay for the Morat skill but almost never use it. So I usually field Daturazi for smoke, but after that, nothing auto-include.
     
  2. Obeisance

    Obeisance Well-Known Member

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    Are Pretas/Gakis actually good?

    4pt super fast bombs seems sweet.
     
  3. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
    Warcor

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    I'm a huge fan of them. I got lucky once with terrain and was able to walk a 4pt Gaki through 6-7 Tohaa dudes in buildings.

    I ran up to the outside out of LoF. All they could do was Change Face. Then I ran 6" in to base contact. Next order, mauled the dude. The other Tohaa still didn't have LoF. Two guys per building, marched right on through. The last had three guys in it and I died and exploded, catching another one or two. ;)

    I do generally prefer Pretas though. 6-6 MOV, Chain Rifle, Dogged, Climbing Plus... They're fun.
     
    Flipswitch, Belgrim and Golem2God like this.
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The Gakis/pretas are cheap regular orders in the Morat Sectorial, but need to be into a Fireteam Core. In vanilla, they are usefull only as fast sucidal troops you can *almost* control, and unless you know you are going to face short range NWI troops (like the greeks), I'd say the Ikadrons are better options by a wide margin.

    They can work against panicking enemies, but if they think coldly enough the 4 pts ones will be mowed down on their way, and the 7 pts ones will maybe get one or two Chain Rifle shots before dying.
     
  5. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    Still I like the potential they have. Mines clearing, locking ennemies trough CC, slowing down rambos / warbands, climbing from unexpected sides... Explode never happened to me, they always went from running to dead. But dogged is still good, it slows down the ennemy enough. And if you put them in their own order pool, you don't really care that they live or die.

    I never used them free (not as a fireteam) in MAF, but I intend to try it one day. In vanilla, they bring all this for like 30 points. So yeah I like them.
     
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    They can take away orders!, if they are alone in a second combat group and you go first, the enemy can spend a command token and take away 2 regular orders from your main group (or limiting your coordinated options), so be mindful of that!
     
    Ginrei likes this.
  7. Obeisance

    Obeisance Well-Known Member

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    Do you guys find Onyx too restrictive?

    Is the ability to Unidron link that worth it? I
     
  8. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I feel it's very strong. The Unidron link, the Rodok link, the Xeodron link... The Sphinx, Noctifiers. Access to Imetrons. Fraactas, Umbras.

    It's got the best of a lot of CA.

    The only things it doesn't have that I regularly run in Vanilla are Aspects, Shrouded, and Speculos.

    But any of those would be a bit much.
     
    #28 Reece, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
    Sabin76 likes this.
  9. Gaffles

    Gaffles Member

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    A unidron link with a plasma sniper/missle launcher, a spitfire and a few forward observers with hacking support buffs like assisted fire is one of the scariest link teams in the game atm. That alone could make it worth it. Well that and 2 noctifer missle launchers standing in the same spot can make for some excellent shenanigans.
     
    #29 Gaffles, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It is restrictive, since you don't really have much playstyle variations... then again, Morat and, to a degree, vanilla, are also about "nuke 'hem hard in alpha strike, then pick the pieces and capture the consoles" XD.

    The real worth of the Unidron link team is the same as the PanO fusilier link team: cheerleaders with some extra protection, more shooty, and more effective ARO duty (which can go up to eleven with supportware, and both long range weapons ignore the ARM bonus from cover thanks to templates!). This allows you to pick a huge rambo piece (like the Sphinx) or a pricier haris (the Samaritan + 2 Xeodrons), and in a pinch you can go 13-14 orders wihtout a TAG or with an Overdron for extra fire support.
     
  11. Obeisance

    Obeisance Well-Known Member

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    It's actually the Clipsos F/O equivalent I'm missing. No Shrouded.

    Malignos F/O is 36pts. Noctifier Hacker is 0.5 SWC and 32pts.

    I also miss Chain of Command. After starting the game with Tohaa, I actually had to read how Loss of Lieutenant works. lol.
     
  12. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    You and the rest of the faction. ;)
     
  13. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    I don't field often Malignos because of the cost. Noctifier hacker... Take the Evo instead, no ? Well I don't really know, coming from Morat, the specialists where mostly button pushers and drone buffers, not much else. Is a surprise hack from a normal hacking device really useful ? Spitfire and ML profiles are great though.
    Lieutenants, yeah they are pretty obvious in onyx, and not that resilient, you often have to play the game "well it could be him or him"
    What I'm missing in Onyx is smoke. You have other solutions but sometimes it's not that obvious =)
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Get an Aspect and read carefully how that Ghost:Mnemonica works... As long as they don't Isolate your Lt, you won't get into LoL ever!

    For FO advanced duties... Fraacta (AHD), Malignos (expensive TO piece) or Shrouded (less expensive Camo piece), or, in a pinch, the Legate H+ (cybermask, spotlight, flash pulse...).
     
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  15. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    You can be in LoL. If your Mnemonica goes unconscious but you're confident you can heal/repair him next turn, you can choose not to activate Mnemonica.
     
  16. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    The new Shock ruling sucks. This used to only be a problem for the Avatar.
     
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  17. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, you have Noctifier Lt. It is still obvious, it won't do much and it will consume a lot of points for what it is, but at least it's fairly resilient with proper placement.
     
  18. Obeisance

    Obeisance Well-Known Member

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    What are people using for Shrouded?

    The model is awful. Need some good proxy ideas!
     
  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Direct option: Malignos... You have one of each in the Shasvastii starter, then a blister for each one with the inverted loadouts. Other than that, well, you can't use the Noctifer (it would cause confusion with the actual malignos, even if you field none), so... other shasvastii models. The specops, if not activated as an extra, is always a good fallback.
     
  20. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Seed Soldiers are good too use too.