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Old Factions Vs New Factions. We Will Hope in N4 Changes

Discussion in 'News' started by The Holy Knight, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I'd love to see a Hexa redesign......
     
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  2. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Good luck with that... :(
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    That's as likely as a Moran re-sculpt.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Electric Pulses are rather expensive in comparison to a Knife. Particularly on a unit that also get additional CC.
     
  5. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I would love my warcriminal to have some more gear that made them seem like warcriminals.
     
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  6. SpectralOwl

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    What, an orange T-shirt with the slogan "I lost at Nuremburg and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"? It's a bit hard to convey with equipment an intention to fight illegally...
     
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  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Indiscriminate Mines (ie they Trigger vs both Enemy and Friendly) could work, but you'd need to add an exception that allowed them to kill Civilians as well.
     
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  8. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    New rule

    Amoral: May harm civilians (including HVTs) without penalty.
     
  9. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    O-12 as a whole has a few units that from a points perspective are not using the same formula as units already in the game. Their "not Nisse" is the same, there's a few points missing there, comparatively.

    I don't know if this is an intentional part of their design, or an outcome of the somewhat lopsided design choices made in some of these sectorials. If you look at older armies, you'll see that a lot of them have units that just have weird toolkits / do multiple things. The Kanren, for example, does Holoprojector stuff, is still a not-horrible gunfighter among skirmishers, and brings a hacking device or unusual equipment like a minelayer sniffer or madtraps. You can talk about the different types of variety a Kanren can add to a list all day, because it can fill a lot of roles. Every Kanren profile feels like it has a situation where it would be the most viable, except maybe the BSG. But even writing that, I'm sure someone could sing me praises of the BSG.

    But the Kanren never feels like a must-take in ISS, because he has plenty of internal competition.

    On the other hand, some of the new sectorials feel like this might just be an outcome because of weird design choices and bloat. FoCo is a great example of this to me -- there's the bloatey A-Team link, or you can play less flashy but more optimized with Kriza, Securitates, and Zeroes. And one of those options I feel is way more competitive than the other.

    On the other hand, they've nailed a couple of the new armies. I still feel like I can play anything in the world in Spiral Corps.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Why look at the Epsilon when you need look no further than the Kamau for a "not Nisse" which is arguably even better for not being burdened by 4-2 MOV?
     
  11. SpectralOwl

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    Because the Kamau doesn't have MSV2 on any profile except its MULTI Sniper. The Epsilon and Nisse are both notably excellent HMG platforms, especially for an unlinked unit. I do happen to dislike the new "only snipers have to pay for the MSV" thing, it's making them very accessible for their power level when combined with mixed links yet not really helping units in Vanilla.
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If we're discussing gameplay application, then yes, but then we also have to discuss softer values like access, ability distribution, unit variance, etc. If we only look at it in terms of points formula I think the Kamau sniper has an even better deal than the Epsilon sniper.
     
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  13. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Well, we have a list of banned weapons to take ques from
     
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  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The Epsilon gets two points cheaper, loses 3 BTS, gains a point of armor, gains a nanopulser, and upgrades shock immune to bioimmune. Is 4-4 movement worth 4 more points than 4-2 on a sniper that doesn't expect to do any moving around? I will leave you to be the judge of that.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Like I wrote; softer values can't really be taken into account when it comes to the points formula and repositioning is definitely a softer value.

    Although if we ignore that the discussion is about points formula and not the specific units, then Epsilon sniper is almost the only time I'd ever prefer to save points and get 4-2 MOV. But then again, I'd also prefer to save points by dropping the Nanopulser as well and I'm not so sure that ARM 2 is all that useful considering the price.
     
  16. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Sorry, I think I may have been misinterpreted. In terms of just the point formula, the Epsilon is saving 4 points to get better resistance to every ammo type except for Shock, and gain a nanopulser, at the cost of movement. That's what I meant by the cost of movement -- the only value we can't account for easily is the difference in movement, but we know it doesn't cost 4 points to go from 4-2 to 4-4. The Epsilon is getting undercharged for something somewhere.

    Side point, ARM2 BTS3 Bioimmune is better than ARM1 BTS6 Shock Immune against almost every ammo type in the game (Shock is the obvious exception, but the Kamau is also favored against Plasma, Nano, and Breaker, FWIW).
     
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Being a regular dispenser of Breaker (Breaker Pistol Best Pistol), I find that difference to be significant ;)

    I haven't actually found any evidence that Bioimmunity costs more than Shock Immunity, so the question is whether Nanopulser, 1->2 ARM and 4-2 MOV is 2 points cheaper than +3 BTS and 4-4 MOV. From what I've been able to tell, going from 1 to 2 ARM seems to only sometimes be worth 2 points, but I think that Medium Infantry (even 4-4 MI like Yadu) get a baseline of 2 ARM for free.. So as far as the two checking out I would say they absolutely do once you get nitty and gritty.
     
  18. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

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    You could do something that's the opposite of Peacekeeper.

    • Any scenario or campaign rules relating to the use of weapons banned by the Concilium Convention are always applied to the owner of this Special Skill whether they have banned weapons or not.
    • This Special Skill is applied only in those scenarios or campaigns which specify it
     
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