It seems you say so much, there is trouble remembering all of it. It seems like the problem is that you will not believe him that Angel stated as much in hundreds of his painting videos, although not a single one has yet to be provided. Seems like something that could be proven pretty easily if one wanted to prove it, but instead it seems that it is the burden of everyone else to supply the evidence that it was not stated, or to just believe what was heard.
I'm not going to dig through hundreds of hours of Angel content just to prove a point to an internet rando who cannot believe a statement without hard proof otherwise. I'm not putting any burden on you, it's actually just the opposite - psychoticstorm is putting the burden of "proving what Angel said" on me, simply because he's incapable of taking a forum user's word for such a minor thing. Instead of that, he has to flaunt his meager e-penis alluding to whatever connection to the company / tour of the factory / other obscure source of knowledge he has about the process. He won't provide any actual hard proof to the contrary either, which is fairly convenient in the light of his own "requirements". On one hand there's me stating "I heard Angel say CB uses XYZ and using XYZ is a well known industry standard". The 2nd part of this sentence is an undeniable fact for anyone who has done any commission painting or talked to any fellow painters about doing cover art on preprod models. The linked information in my recent post is just more proof of the fact. The industry uses resin cast (often using the same master moulds that will be used for creating metal miniatures) or high resolution resin 3D printed miniatures where it's not possible to cast off the actual master mould or the technology is otherwise different. Using the fact that it's literally physically impossible to find that Angel statement if one doesn't have it on hand already, psychotic is getting on a high horse instead of simply stating "it would be good to see a confirmation, to my best knowledge CB doesn't cast resin preprod minis off the master moulds, maybe they did in the past". Nope, he knows best, won't say how, but he's "in the know" and CB surely does not, did not and will not ever use resin at all, "no trace of resin in the factory". Forgetting that not only he could be wrong, but that he could be unaware and there wouldn't be a trace of resin minimal run trial preproduction miniatures in the high volume metal spincasting factory. Not to mention he has not provided proof of his words either. It would be enough to say "I'm in the factory on a weekly basis, if that were the practice, I would rather be aware of it" or something to the effect. But hey, it probably feels better to wave that Forum moderator e-pen around, I guess.
Nah, it's pretty clear even from the truncated quotes where I meant CB and "boutique high quality resin cast copies" of minis and where I meant other technologies and companies which sometimes use 3D print. Which is also resin. But, hey. Internet points, I guess.
Okay. I’m pretty sure I’ve said this before but if something is stated, no matter how minor a thing, proof is required. Otherwise the statement can be ignored. For instance I could say there’s a teapot halfway to Mars and the teacup is floating around Jupiter. If I don’t provide evidence then there’s no requirement to believe me no matter who I am or what field I am in. Now since you’ve provided no evidence for your statement in the form of the video you’ve stated exists, then there’s no requirement for @psychoticstorm to believe you. It doesn’t matter how minor a statement it is. On the other hand, since psychoticstorm hasn’t provided evidence either then there’s also no requirement to believe his post. The issue here is the exception that the message you posted literally states what psychoticstorm stated in one of his messages. It matches his statement very well which lends his argument more credence and validity. You can take these statements however you wish, for some people no evidence is necessary, for others no evidence is enough and for others evidence is all. We each get to choose. There’s also no need to insult someone just because you disagree with them (I myself am guilty of this). It is possible to disagree in good faith and have an opposing opinion. On a lighter note: @A Mão Esquerda , I know, I know. Digging holes. You have warned me. But in my defence, I may find diamonds down this hole and I have a miniatures budget that needs padding…
Diamonds are a girl’s best friend… Hey, you never know, there just may be that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. However, don’t forget that many times the riches lie in the journey itself, and the friends we make along the way.
For so much written across the 49 pages of posts, evidence could easily have been provided by all sides if it was available. But I'm so past the point of caring... I would just like these little digs or whatever they are to please PLEASE... just stop. So what's next for Thermoplastic for CB ?
This is true, but my friends aren’t going to buy my minis for me until birthday/Xmas time… and I have severe Pokémon syndrome and an inability to wait, lol. Hmm… next is TAGs then tomorrow the world! Come on, no super villain has ever considered conquering the world with thermoplastic before. It’s bound to work.
I’m all seriousness though I would love to see some of the larger TAGs (looking your way Maggy) rendered in Siocast. The damn thing is beautiful but so heavy! I’d also like to see it’s old version redone like this but that’s just because I love the Tachikoma bots from Ghost in the Shell. Some of the other TAG profiles would be great too. I guess we’ll see what the year brings. In other news I won’t get to see what my bearpode looks like as it still hasn’t come in so I changed the order for some Janissaires. One day I will get it but for now no siocast giant polar bear with armour for me. Aside from what is known in regards to what’s next for siocast, does anybody have any other news or theories as to what may get released?
Just to remind you why the dispute happens, and it is not about "e-pin", you effectively accused CB of painting resin miniatures for display purposes instead of the production metal models, something some companies in the industry do, and it is frowned upon because resin casts have sharper detailed than the production metals, and something CB has never done. The only even remotely related incident would be Aristeia! launching promo pictures when CB used metal casts of the models China was going to produce in the future, if CB was using resin for master models, or 3D prints, they would use these instead of making molds of the 3D prints and then cast them in metal. As I said the process is 3D print is cleaned and moulded and then stored because it might be needed in the future, the mould from 3D print is used to create the master miniatures in metal and these are then used to make the production moulds, again in metal, I have not asked directly for thermoplastics but given we have been shown metal master I am assuming the same process is applied with the thermoplastics. I would not object somebody saying "Angel said he was given Master casts for expediency", these are metal models, I would find it really strange if someone claimed he said he was given 3D prints to paint, as far as I know these are kept, even a 3D print needs some process before it is ready to be casted, but it is a possibility however remote, but resin cast master models? I know these do not exist in CBs production and frankly the evidence is in the picture that is on the first page of this thread it says "White Metal CB HQ Production Master", if CB used production resin models it would say so.
So far the second set of models released in the wild are the Zonds and the Bearpod, I have not heard any positive or negative feedback so far in the forum or anywhere else for the Zonds, and a few pictures for the Bearpod. My personal experience from the Bearpod and quite a few Zonds is positive, no major issues, cleaning needs to get used to, as I said previously before it got burried in this thread, I think scraping moldlines one way and immediately scraping them the other way may be a way clean the models easier.
Cheers for the feedback, glad to hear the Zonds appear Ok. At least it's going in the right direction with the outcome getting cleaner for newer models etc. Gives me continued hope for the Shakush if they go the way of thermo for it :)
Tomorrow, with the apricots. :P Though for my more realistic guess, between October and December '22. Once the TAG Packs for the "GenCon release" Operation: Something -Something (guesstimated to be Aleph vs Haqqislam) drops. Which is fine with me. Gives CB a while to iron out more creases out of the SioCast design / production process before they get to Shakush. I think I said similar thing in this topic long ago: teething problems, and it will take time to make it right.
Could it be mangoes instead? Then I can make fresh mango juice in my ninja smoothie maker. I think it will take time to iron out all the issues, it’s why I wanted the bearpode, to see what the quality was like since the Vostok, but alas it turned into a box of Janissaires. I will eagerly await new stuff, especially if it’s new TAGs we haven’t seen or even older discontinued ones!
I might be late a bit, but here are my quick thoughts about the thermoplastic of Vostok and Zonds. Vostok - Evaluation: Predominantly Negative. <Overall Characteristics> 1. Soft and glossy. The gloss is a kinda nuisance, but it's not the level of actual flaw. It is quite soft, so that the modeling knife slices through it like a pudding. 2. The paint sticks to the surface quite well, and scratches off much less than metal. This is one of the biggest advantage IMO. <Major Flaws> 1. Some moldlines or fins are located in nasty areas. For example the socket for the MK12 of Vostok(photo ⑤), is filled with hard-to-kill moldlines, as you can see in the photo above. 2. Defective details & distortion. Eye sockets(photo ②), bolts, underside of the chassis(photo ③, ④), etc., there are quite a lot of areas which lack proper details. Also, it has one of its legs bent(photo ⑦). 3. Handling the moldlines is frustrating. The biggest of the major issues here, is when you try to shave off the moldlines, the last molecule clings to the end and hardly goes off. Throughout the gruesome iteration of cutting out the last molecule, the detail deteriorates inevitably. You can use modelling sandpapers(not files, pardon me), but you should be careful not to make abrasions. --- Zonds - Evaluation: Saw a significant potential to be better <Changes & Improvements> 1. Less glossy & soft. The surfaces have gotten rather matt, and the property is less soft. Not a big deal, but relatively reliable. 2. Edges have gotten sharper. The overall details of the model, as you can see in the photo ① and ⑥, have gotten sharper. 3. Better details. You can still find some defects(i.e. the square socket in the photo ②, some hard-to-reach fins in the inner side of the legs in the photo ⑤) or distiontion(photo ④), but the overall details are much better than Vostok. It was quite astonishing that I couldn't find any thin parts bent, such as wings(photo ③) or weaponry. --- <Conclusion> It is hard to say that my first encounter with thermoplastic was good enough, but the improvement CB has shown me through the Zonds was unexpectedly gratifying. There are still a few important issues to be handled(i.e. the Endlessly Clingy Last Molecule), but scoping on the details of the Bearpodes which others got, I believe CB could do better, will do better, and should do better.
Solid writeup. Thanks for putting time and effort into providing an extensive evaluation with pictures and all.
Good to see that CB is quickly improving. Lucky for me I still don't need any Siocast model, so I'll wait and see.
@Ugin that is a bad Vostok, have you contacted customers service for it? I found scraping the mould line both ways helps with the issue of the clinging last molecule, though other people suggest sandpaper, but not files.
