We know and it's not the point. Seriously, you're a "moderator" and you're gonna troll with such cheap hyperbole? That is plainly false. No, they're not. Maybe CB is new to the technology, that's why we're wondering whether they tested it and why they released such poor results. Thermoplastic polyamide models are not a new technology and there are multiple companies who cast complex miniatures in all scales, both technological and organic sculpts, which do not have such issues and deliver good quality product. No, it is not "good". It's not even "good enough", it's shit tier quality from what we've seen with the Vostok. The Bearpode will likely be the make or break of the technology for CB, if the model is as bad as both Vostok sculpts, many people will likely stop buying non-metal Infinity. You want to tell me that the issues present with every single copy of the Vostok that we've kept showing to everyone in this thread were not visible to the QC people? Seriously? Dude, you're far from being the "objective voice of reason" you're trying to pose as here, so please stop getting in the way of customer conversation and hijacking it with the company party line, hm?
To paraphrase the Rt. Hon. Hacker, your facts are anecdotes, their anecdotes are facts, and should form the basis of all of CB’s decisions.
It's not every single copy, and we're specifically selecting for negative examples in this thread. Also, Polyamide is a rather broad family as it turns out, that's typically not named according to the specific plastic being used, so just 'cause a company has been using a similar polyamide (e.g. Vinyl which is a registered trademark) doesn't mean they share all the qualities of the stuff CB's using - and more specifically it doesn't mean CB is necessarily able to draw from their experience using it.
It is not every single Vostok you are unreasonably hyperbolic and have been from the start, especially been dismisive to people who do not share your view of it been a terrible product. As I said it is a new product line and CB has a track record of vastly improving their product line over time, and this is what I am expecting for it to happen, as it is obvious to everybody CB created a new Vostok model with separate head (and this means a new cut of the model in 3D, new 3D print, new molds) in reaction to the feedback for the one body Vostok, so already the model is improved. I am perplexed why you are against customers to use the mispack and other quality issues service though, I encourage everybody to use it if they have any issue with their product.
How many Vostoks passed through your hands, mate? I've seen pictures from 20+ Vostoks online and have personally handled over 30 Vostoks since release. Every single unibody Vostok had the neck issue and all of these Vostoks, unibody or not, had the mould slip and detail loss issues in other places. Again, why are you acting the company shill and interfering with customer conversations? When people break the rules and insult users you wag a red text finger at best. But you gotta cut in and defend the company, right? Only one of many issues with the models has been addressed and regardless of that fact, CB has been shamelessly mass shipping the worse unibody version of the Vostok to buyers. Those were not mispack mistakes, but dozens of unibodies I've seen in the wild. I am perplexed why would you so blatantly lie and insinuate something false like this. Stop lying and twisting what other people said.
Because this is not customer CONVERSATION. It's just an unilateral rant that has been addressed in so many frigging way it is no more useful.
Unibody Vostoks shipped was a mistake and I encourage everybody receiving one to use the mispack service. I must say though this is an impressive volume of vostok pictures and models, I have not found that many picks of them online, or physically handled 30+ Vostoks, the couple I handled were neither unibody or had any serious issue. That been said if there is a quality issue people using the dedicated service can help CB track the issue.
Public service announcement. Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean they are a troll.
First of all, the fact that Muad'dib continues to stick around and be so helpful is laudable. I doubt I'd have had the patience with such a discussion on the topic of my PhD. Also, confirmation bias exists. We're naturally seeing only the bad examples, because people don't complain on the forums if things are fine. Without knowing the amount of vostoks sold, we can't put an estimate of how frequent the miscasts are. Especially since we also don't know the number of vostok parts rejected by quality control. The number of complains is uncharacteristically high, but claims like "most" or "all", that's hyperbolic and arbitrary. On the other hand, this thing "it can only improve from here"... Spare the clichés. Progress does not happen automatically and production quality can deteriorate due to many factors. From what I gather, CB made the transition in a hurry and is still suffering by the fact that it treats the polymer models as metal ones. Some input on when models designed for siocast are going to hit the market would be good. Or on whether the bear and the nomad rems were initially also meant to be metal. Also, this survey that comes with the vostoks - we'll probably not see the full results, because they might be sensitive, but there's ton of interesting information to be drawn from it. For example it would be very interesting to compare the difference of satisfaction between the total sample of customers and the customers who are also forum members. Or the willingness of people who received bad casts to buy another siocast product again.
I've myself had only 3 in my hands. 2 of them were pretty bad, and the funny thing is the only good one was the old version without separate head. On the other hand it was handled and assembled by a veteran modeler.
The shape also matters. Give it the "right" shape and it will break. It's like the cuts in a tree when chopping it down. IIRC those legs break where "thigh" meets "pelvis" with non filleted transition. A typical stress point. There is, and they would look more industrially cool, because things would look as they are in reality (bevels, fillets, trusses, etc). Latests designs seem to have gone fat but still with thin zones here and there. Vinyl is not in the polyamide family, PVC vs PA. But more to the point, other casters do not seem to be having the issue with the same plastic as CB. All them got or should get training from the machine creator to understand what they are handling.
Sorry. Wool, silk and Kevlar, then? Sheeps have had millennia and they still don't do it perfectly :p So... the sculptors' knowledge of the material process is perfect, the mould manufacturing process is perfected, the shrinkage is perfectly known, the temperature and humidity control of not only the machine but the entire room is perfected, etc etc and the only source of possible problem are the people putting the stuff in the machine and they've had training sessions? I think you're underestimating the number of sources where things can go wrong. I know I sure am.
This would solve the issue but could remove the entire sci fi/anime look they’re going for. It may also be a case of allowing the stress points to go through development as the likelihood of them breaking is low and/or it’s easier to do this than to redesign the whole sprue or mini. Your suggested solution is extremely viable (would be great for Ariadna minis) but for one reason or another it hasn’t been implemented (and not just by CB).
Oh, absolutely. There are a plethora of things that could and likely do go wrong in the process. All I’m confused about is the number of apparent issues that are being seen (though as has been pointed out it’s possibly significantly lower than the ones without issues as no one is going to report positive things about their mini). I’d posit that given the correct training, we shouldn’t be seeing as many issues as we are, though it is certainly not out of the realm of the possible. Forgeworld had insane issues at the beginning and in certain cases still do and indeed these items go live for sale.
I commission paint for a living and have several people paint for me. I inspect and assemble most of the models we paint as commissions. I also know many people who play, in person, as well as online. Whole community servers for TTS and then some. I have yet to see one, a single Vostok, online or in my hands, without a major mould slip, flash across detail or "melt" issues. Many have multiple of those, in multiple spots. And so many of them were unibodies. Which we've asked to replace. And asked again at times, because we and some folks online received unibodies as replacement. We've asked people specifically, "please show us a great Vostok, one where I can't see obvious issues". Like, not something that's actually easy to cut off, but issues that affect the shape or irrecoverable detail of the part. It's really tedious to hear "just use the mispack service", over and over again. How about doing it right in the first place, so that sending the unibody is an actual mistake, not a shitty attempt at "eh, maybe some of them won't notice the difference"? CB have lost so much goodwill with so many of my acquaintances and customers with this Vostok debacle.
That's the thing, some of them can be saved, but not without either unreasonable amount of time and work (and some resculpting) or not without accepting either detail loss or remaining issues that will be clear as day when painted by somebody who doesn't go ONE THICK COAT.
See, I would believe you if it weren't so many customers across so many places in the world. CB have either tossed a box of unibodies into the shipping bin on purpose or kept making the same dumb mistake over and over again. Which is it? Can't say with certainty, though #1 is dumb as fuck because you can recycle the miscast minis and reuse the Siocast, which was one of the advertised points of using the technology in the first place - and #2 is dumb as fuck as well, but entirely in character.
