1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

OctoBrrrrrr, it's getting cold! Speculation thread.

Discussion in 'News' started by colbrook, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    8,821
    Likes Received:
    10,960
    No, dude, if they want to jump they have to declare Jump. If they want to just walk they have to declare Move. They can't both jump and walk using the same skill declaration.
    As in when a Rodok with Raktorak fireteam declares short skill Jump, Raktorak's declaration is invalid and becomes Idle, but they aren't forced to declare Jump unless they want to jump.
     
    Dragonstriker and ijw like this.
  2. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    143
    Hey , man I see why you guys did it the way you did and TOs can ensure things aren't silly.
     
    HellLois likes this.
  3. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    143
    Chill out "dude", if I'm calling something out as ridiculous, that's not an attack on you so no reason for you to call me dude like I did something wrong.

    You know what I don't care anymore, if it's that way it's that way, freak out if you want, I'm not trying to have that kind of energy at me.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    8,821
    Likes Received:
    10,960
    [​IMG]
     
    Willen, tox and melkiach like this.
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    6,507
    Likes Received:
    13,316
    This works as described by Mahtamori. Troopers with Super-Jump have to declare Jump if they want to Jump. The rest of the Fireteam, Coordinated Order etc. will Idle, and won’t be losing cover.
     
    Dragonstriker and Willen like this.
  6. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    143
    I read, I'm saying it seems 100% wrong. This and the cover for climbing plus thing and lack of prone cover just seems like a lack of progress to me. Its 3 clean rules.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  7. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    7,960
    I still don't understand - and would appreciate someone explaining it to me using big letters and short, easy words - why fireteams can't mix and match all types of movement, and why Super Jump is treated differently from Climbing Plus.
     
  8. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    1,334
    "To provide cover terrain has to be at least as tall and wide as a silhouette 1 smaller than the Trooper gaining cover from it"

    This would still have been binary, simpler, easier to intuitively understand as making sense, and more objective than the N3 rule, and not allowed TAGs to look silly getting cover from fire hydrants.
     
  9. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,138
    Likes Received:
    2,228
    Again? It's the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th times, but...

    C+ transform CLIMB in a MOVE skill. If you MOVE multiple models, they can move as they wish on any applyable surface.
    SJ convert JUMP from a LONG to a SHORT movement skill. When multiple models declares THE SAME SKILL as requested by the rules. there is no freaking way to declare the same, if some of them lacks SJ.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    I think it's just an unintended benefit to C+ that comes about because it's written so you can climb without needing to be touching the surface at the start of the order.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    8,821
    Likes Received:
    10,960
    A different take on it.

    Super-Jump transforms Jump into a Short Movement Skill.
    Climbing Plus transforms Climb into a Short Movement Skill and allows other movement skills to treat vertical surfaces as if they are horizontal ones.

    They work identically, except that Climbing Plus has benefits for other movement skills.
     
  12. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    1,805
    It's very silly. We can't have a fireteam Moving on a roof while the 5th member jumps across the gap and covers the other angle? We have to waste precious TW Orders which means this cool cinematic behaviour will not happen at all?

    Sam with C+ lack of cover behind aforementioned AC unit. That's dumb and kills immersion.

    Don't create rules for the sake of rules, exceptions from general rules for the sake of new exceptions.

    Permit Jump as a kind of Move, allowing fireteams to mix and match. Permit C+ normal rules of cover on the wall surface.

    Come on.
     
    Berjiz, wuji, wes-o-matic and 2 others like this.
  13. Padre

    Padre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    48
    Yes, but also no. Now you have to check Silhouette, find a lower-number Silhouette and then have potential discussion about being or not being wide/high enough from that particular angle. Also, in some cases the rule makes little sense: S4 is wider than S5, so why do I need terrain wider than the miniature to get partial cover?

    The point is: when discussing LoF rules it's "quick, objective, realistic - pick two". It's way easier to either setup tables to avoid silly disputes or have an agreement that micro-scatter doesn't grant cover. The official rule gives you a neat fallback plan - weird table and no agreement for micro-scatter? Play it by the rules, most likely you'll avoid the edge cases anyway.
     
    Teslarod and Dragonstriker like this.
  14. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    1,334
    You wouldn't need to discuss angle any more than you would with the N4 rule (which you still can do). You just need to compare a silhouette to the absolute size of the terrain. Similar to how you need to use a silhouette for Troopers for LOF anyway. It's very occasionally and slightly more involved than the current rule but also sometimes, possibly commonly less ridiculous. Just so tiny things don't give very big things cover.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    6,507
    Likes Received:
    13,316
    Your previous post was extremely unclear, and made it look like you misunderstood the rule completely. Cover is a completely separate issue.

    Super-Jump makes Jump a Short Movement Skill, but you're still declaring Jump.
    Climbing Plus changes Climb into the Move Short Movement Skill, you're declaring Move instead of Climb.

    This was not my decision, or recommendation.

    Mixing and matching all types of movement in a Fireteam gets messy really fast.

    'This Fireteam member will Discover, the Team Leader will Jump as a Short Skill, this other one will Climb as an Entire Order, the next will use Cautious Movement as an Entire Order, and the last one is going to Move through a doorway.'
     
  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    I think he is not asking how the rules work, but why the rules were made that way instead of something more "fluid" for fireteams
     
  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    1,805
    And this is a problem.

    We get it but you can better convey our input to the design team. Unless this statement means you don't like it either and you've already told them.

    The point is to make them all Move.

    This is just a problem with how you phrased the above.

    Fireteam declares Move as a whole.

    Model "A" makes a Discover WIP roll.
    Model "B" has Super Jump and is on the roof above others. It allows him to Move across the gap with a Jump.
    Model "C" has Climbing+. It allows him to Move onto the wall stay on it, covering from above.
    Model "D" uses Cautious Movement to safely cross the same gap "A" jumped over.
    Model "E" makes a simple 4" Move through the doorway, into the building.

    They all made a Move. Some additional rules allowed them to add some "flavour" to what they can do with a Move declaration.
     
    wuji and Guardian like this.
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    It probably means it's not his job. People expecting @ijw to change this should probably back down expectations as that's not fair on him.

    What's the last thing the drummer said before he got kicked out of the band? 'Hey, I wrote a song.' - Dave Grohl
     
    Dragonstriker, Willen and Stiopa like this.
  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    7,960
    @Nuada the only thing I don't like in your example is making "Discover" into "Move" skill (It should still be a Short Movement Skill, SMS =/= Move).

    I know how the rules work. I was asking why it was decided to be this way.

    True, that's why I've only asked for some explanation why it was decided to be like that, not demanded from him for it to be changed.
     
  20. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    910
    This will be a source of confusion in the early N4,I think, but only the firsts months.