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Not trying to be negative here.... but...

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Zewrath, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    Cyber Mines go off on Hackable units too
     
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  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    The big advantage of Cybermines isn't 1 on 1, but combining them with other threats.

    If an enemy has to choose between opposing the Cybermine, or opposing incoming shots, they're in a jam. The big thing here too is that something like a TAG or Heavy Infantry wouldn't ordinarily care too much about antipersonnel mine, but a Cybermine is a bigger danger to them. Getting stuck Resetting when there are follow-up shots coming in is nasty.
     
  3. neostrider

    neostrider Well-Known Member

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    Boring but rock steady will never seem as cool as special glass cannons.

    MB needs a haris. Beyond that the hollowmen are going to die much more often hence the discount. MB can duck into cover willingly, hollowmen are stuck playing Serious Sam until they die.

    Anyone else have the opinion the specialists on hollowmen are ... weird? The only boarding shotgun, or putting a khd kick me sign on. I will probably pass on these for other specialists.

    Assault hacking device seems like a good idea then I remember all my other better hackers and I take the pitcher instead.
     
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  4. tomjoad

    tomjoad Member

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  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Hollow men are pretty normal, Brigada are just old. They got power creeped but the Brigada were never that good.

    It's like everyone had these 4 units, and the 4th one was bad. They had the 4th one made good and we didn't. To improve HI cores without power creeping they would have had to do them all at once or nerf everything else.
     
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  6. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Yea I don't really think Brigada should be used as a baseline for comparison. They were pretty lackluster even before this.
     
    Robock likes this.
  7. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how I completely missed the bold part :D
     
  8. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Lets compare against my makual with flame thrower

    Hollow man dodges:
    Active Player
    37.50% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    25.00% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    15.62% Makaul inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious 2)
    9.38% Makaul inflicts 4 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Failures
    12.50% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    50.00% Custom Unit Dodges Makaul

    Hollow man Shoots back with a combi
    ctive Player
    75.00% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    50.00% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    31.25% Makaul inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious 2)
    18.75% Makaul inflicts 4 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Failures
    25.00% No success
    Reactive Player
    32.00% Custom Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Makaul (Unconscious)

    Failures
    68.00% No success

    Now the MB Dodges
    Active Player
    22.50% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (1 W)
    15.00% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (Unconscious)
    9.38% Makaul inflicts 3 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (Dead)

    Failures
    7.50% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    70.00% Mobile Brigada Dodges Makaul

    and shoots back

    Active Player
    75.00% Makaul inflicts 1 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (1 W)
    50.00% Makaul inflicts 2 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (Unconscious)
    31.25% Makaul inflicts 3 or more wounds on Mobile Brigada (Dead)

    Failures
    25.00% No success
    Reactive Player
    32.00% Mobile Brigada inflicts 1 or more wounds on Makaul (Unconscious)

    Failures
    68.00% No success

    IF you shoot back and take the hit, the hollow man wins simple through an extra state of unconciousness. If you dodge the MB has a 20% better chance of dodging (1.4 times as likly to live)
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I too think a Shock Immune Hacker with 2 states of Unconscious and a Tinbot is bad.
     
  10. neostrider

    neostrider Well-Known Member

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    Shock rarely bothers me. I rarely bother picking people up.

    A khd cannot do anything to the heckler unless I put the ahd on him. If rather make them walk into my chain colt or combi to fight.

    Tinbot maybe for the link but for himself I think only brings the hacking ftf too close for my comfort.

    And I'd prefer the interventor do the hacking. It'd need to be low points for me to only take hollowmen hacker to conserve points.
     
  11. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    mobile brigadas are basic HI. What do you expect from them? All basic HI in any faction are outdated compared to other options.
     
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  12. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    No. Hollow men have Remote Presence, which grants V:Courage.
     
  13. mazzacheammazza

    mazzacheammazza Well-Known Member

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    I agree with people who say Mobile Brigada was uncool since the N3 book. Uncool, not weak... you can use them but in your mind will always have the feelling "I could spend the point in a better way".
    Staco link team made them a bit better, but was a patch over a dull unit. Hollow men aren't creeped, the brigada are creepy!
     
  14. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    PH 10 insteand of 14 makes Hollowmen about 7-8 points cheaper.
    6-2 with Superjump is better than the sum of it's parts to begin with. 4-4 would have been great already but 6-2 is vastly better. Massive vertical Mobility also circumvents some downsides of being bad at Dodging as you can get past Chainrifles, Mines and Perimeter Weapons on a different path than normal troops.

    In Active turn they're way better than a MB for way less. They're faster to begin with, can go pretty much in a straight line, bring DTWs on most Profiles to provide anti Camo capability and can clear clear the arduous rooftops in midfield as well well as hunt Cheerleaders in the DZ.
    Standout Profile is the 30 points BSG Specialist Operative and a Spitfire with Core Bonus and unmatched Mobility.
    Rem Pres with Clockmakers also helps a lot at selling the ML to me. They can be healed back to full and their Engineer is also their Doctor which makes supporting them way easier. Additionally they're not vulnerable to Hacking considering the entire Sectorial is chock full of the scariest Hackers around.
    Boy they're awesome.

    They downsides are there but neglible for the most part. They're bad in difficult terrain, especially for Rescue. Without proper Fireteam Core you need to keep that REM alive to keep the Link going.

    I'm not judging before I had the chance to play against them, but so far they're somewhat overly optimzed in stats/equipment as well as loadouts.

    Love the concept for the Sectorial, all I want is to avoid powercreep.
     
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  15. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I agree with everything here and I also want to add that it’s a bit off putting that they gave them religious, since the skill is entirely irrelevant with remote presence, so it’s only really there to make the profile even cheaper!
     
  16. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

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    I'm curious to see how they play. I'm of the opinion that they seem to fit well with the sectorial around them. And there comparative mobility and resilience seems to be offset by a lack of smoke, and inability to play the "mod stack" game via ODD/Mimetism.

    I get that the comparison to MB in Vanilla is still a thing. In Vanilla I feel like the MB is most likely to show up with Multirifle, flamethrower, and lieutenant options, anyway. So there's no real comparison to Hollow Men there, as they don't have an LT option.
     
  17. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member

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    According to the pdf, Hollowmen actually have normal Fireteam Core too!
     
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  18. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    That's a huge difference if true.
     
  19. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member

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    Phone post but here.
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Bobblehead

    Bobblehead Well-Known Member

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    My question is, why would you ever take a MB LT now that you can have Securitate as LT? You get 3 Securitate for the same price that cant get isolated, has LoL mitigation in still having 2 regular orders if they get lucky and kill the correct one first and can easily play hide the LT without the SWC tax Nomads was forced to pay up until now (which incidentally is a form of Vanilla powercreep in itself by removing faction weaknesses)

    Or even better, 2 Securitate and a Puppet master to never get orders pulled of you (removing one order for one command token is a waste of a token and if someone does it, you come out on top of that deal) if you go first for the same cost.
     
    #40 Bobblehead, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018