Taking bad units like Zhanying to make an already expensive Hsien viable, wasting regular orders just to set up an engagement with a fireteam... yeah this is why I hate playing as ISS
You can cheat around mod-stacking to an extent with either terrain rules or weird play. Hedges reduce fearsome linked AROs to standard fodder, and things like AD can shake up the game a lot if you pick the right time and place. The Smoke and Visual Mod dominance is simply because they're reliable in most circumstances, severely undercosted and a bit easier to understand than other options, but options are out there.
The unlinked Hsien is edged to win a firefight even against a Kamau. Even if you lose, ARM7 in cover means you've very unlikely to take more than 1W, and even if you do you have a Sophotect. Also taking Zhanying to give him Nimbus and B5 is whatever, it's not like ISS doesn't have the order economy to set that up -- you can take a Hsien Haris and easily still have 16+ orders because Kuang Shi are so ridiculous. Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 4 HSIEN HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 61) ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28) ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GROUP 2 6 4 CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 3.5 SWC | 216 Points Open in Infinity Army
Hsien vs. linked Kamau MSR: Linked 47% to 24% Unlinked 42% to 27% Linked through Nimbus 55% to 15% Unlinked through Nimbus 47% to 18% Even when unlinked, nimbus drops the Kamau's chances of causing a wound vs a Hsien significantly. In a topic about stacking mods, when you've already acknowledged how good doing so is, ignoring the best mod you can apply to battle linked snipers is odd to say the least.
Which makes it into two rolls against effective BTS 9. Not that great odds of getting even a single hit in. And Hsien wouldn't be the only assault piece in a good list.
In Vanilla the Hsien is often hard to justify because it competes in the same price range as a Hac Tao, which gets the marker state and the Hsien's smoke trick doesn't work against link teams which depending on your meta can be a bit of a deal breaker. ISS has an easier time making an argument for him though with link team bonuses and Nimbus appearing by default in the same link. As for the original question, yes of course I use units that can't stack mods still but they tend to have other benefits like Tactical Awareness or being a Su Jian.
Which is why it is better to take actual good units (rui shi, garuda, dakini) instead of a single hsien or, god forbid, a whole haris, in the first place
Dakini HMG, Rui Shi and a combi rifle Garuda collectively cost about the same as a single Hsien. A bit more as a package if you take hacker for Rui Shi and Dakini into consideration. Rui Shi shoots better on 15s than Hsien, Dakini and Garuda have mimetism for stacking mods against non-Kamau fireteam ARO. Mod stacking pieces turn out to be cheaper and, due to that, more redundant than a dude that will be essentialy an ORC trooper against a simple Fusilier with a missile launcher that will remove him from the game on the first lost ARO.
Sounds more like a choice of tools than anything else, indeed. The Hsien is less likely to get completely incapacitated by a single crit, has better range bands than Rui Shi for the purpose, and better shooting ability than the Dakini. The REMs also require an order on the Hacker in order to compete with the Hsien in pure power and none of them will be able to output the same amounts of bullets that a Haris Hsien will. Zhanying are very pricey, particularly thanks to Sixth Sense, and I do consider them to have well above average bloat, but they will still provide the Hsien with a toolbox that you can use for great advantage so as not to be wasted points. (Not to mention that this Fireteam is a self-contained anti-Fireteamed-Kamau/Dakini/... and with B2 on Nimbus makes it reliable instead of a potential order-sink) I think you need to analyse your list and pick the tools you need instead of discarding the Hsien outright. There are situations where the Hsien link will be fantastic that isn't Hunting Party (it's thoroughly ridiculous in Hunting Party) while there are situations where the others will work better. Also; why not both?
While you can't seriously argue against the rui-shi, dakini and garuda being the best shooters in ISS (both from a cost efficiency perspective but also raw power since they're only beaten by the Hsien haris and Wu-ming team), the Hsien have other advantages going for him: - 2 wounds and decent PH/armor allow him to dodge/facetank a chain rifle/mine that would stop a dakini/rui-shi dead in its tracks - With stealth he has an easier time moving around hackers/repeaters and jammers - He has a DTW and isn't completly inept in melee, which is nice - He can be your lieutenant and use this additionnal order to further wreak havoc, and when he dies transfer it to a pheasant KHD/Red Fury who's a decent late game sweeper-specialist and could definitely use the order - He can drag a specialist with him when in Haris So in short, while the REMs are indeed better gunfighters, the Hsien trades a few % at winning face to face and, yes, a tons of points for the ability to follow through much more effectively. and as @Mahtamori says, why not both? You can use REMs for ridiculously cost-effective long range gunfighting, and leave the agression to Imperial agents since it's where they truly shine: Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 6 HSIEN MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 60) ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32) ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GROUP 2 9 1 2 RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army And finally, nothing beats the disguting Hsien haris with madtraps and smoke combo to deal with long range non-msv AROs. Nothing.
