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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Yes, minelayers, but koalas are not mines. In moran's case I think is the combination repeater +infiltration +koalas. No repeater or no koalas?, no SWC. Gangbuster is more near to morans in use and composition than minelayers, that's why I think that, in corregidor, morans could cost bo SWC
     
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  2. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    Other than its outdated sculpt, the Moran is fine. If we are looking at rebalancing swc, the Prowler spitfire
     
  3. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    I've said similar over in the Aleph thread but I'd like to see more purpose to hacking. Like the primary purpose for hacking is to get valuable information (in real life and in fiction)... now I understand that getting an ID number or credit account number in this setting isn't valuable, but the game certainly has a large amount of valuable and hidden information. (Put the info back into infowars if you will...)

    I think some hackers having significantly weaker version of sensor sweep/sat lockish functions are not unreasonable. Camo markers still keep in communication with their team. Similarly I think hackers could mine enemy LTs to reaveal markers by hacking their comm unit. I also might be worth piloting some sort of comm scramble program which could dock orders next order count by successfully hacking your opponents LT.

    That makes way more sense to me than a BS 11 aguicele hacker giving a remote marksmanship.
     
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  4. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    All hackers should be more linkable maybe - I can't see why so many hackers go solo apart from some very specialized ones like Mary - and maybe ITS missions should be designed in a way that you need to get hackers to achieve objectives. It is all about that infowar in the future.
     
  5. Penemue

    Penemue Watcher
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    Time to chime in! I'll stay close to Tunguska just because I've been playing them more recently, but I might throw in a few extra Nomads requests :)

    Tunguska

    Grenzers - poor Grenzers. I've tried to play them, whether as part of a Securitate link (this is ok, actually...) or as a Haris, but they always end up feeling too expensive for a 1W model. Compare them to something like Yaogats (MSV2 instead of MSV1) or Kaplan (Mimetism) or Bagh Mari (Mimetism / MSV1). I know the comparison here is to models with BS12, but I feel that better kit is more important than +1 BS in this case. Yes, some of them have templates and the Sensor/FO is pretty cool, but they feel overcosted for what they do.

    Mary Problems - just a little something is needed to push her into real usefulness. Maybe Wildcard? Maybe NWI instead?


    Nomads

    Reverends - generally quite expensive for a model with 1W. I rarely use them, and rarely see them on the table when other Nomads players play.

    Lieutenant / CoC issue - many other factions are getting CoC, and having a (somewhat) obvious LT is a known Nomads issue. It would be nice to see a CoC / hacker option (something Black Hand?) in Nomads.

    Lunokhod - I can't, for the life of me, figure out why a Shotgun is the primary weapon on a "combat remote". These guys always end up costing way more orders than I want, to make them effective (i.e. White Noise, Smoke). Maybe the PanO version gets a chance to get up the field with that ODD, but Climbing Plus doesn't cut it for a shotgun.

    Prowler - adding this after reading a few more posts here. I think the Prowler is costed as if it were the old Prowler (i.e. BS13, old Spitfire ranges). As of now, it is a generally unattractive option for its cost. For ~32 points, I could have 4-4 TO camo (with admittedly fewer toys). Bump some of the SWC down at the very least, and then we might have something more usable.
     
    #65 Penemue, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  6. Civilized Barbarian

    Civilized Barbarian Praxis' Lead R&D Janitor

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    This may not be the right thread for it, but why do you want linked hackers? The only benefit I see is SSL2 to hack HI/TAGs with stealth.

    In exchange you put an obvious weak link into a fireteam, allowing your opponent to KHD through your own repeater net to break the 5 man link bonus. Also if you try to use supportware with a linked hacker it opens up the whole team to a free ARO unless you hid them all in total cover.

    I must be missing something because I've heard other people rave about linked hackers, but to me those drawbacks aren't worth SSL2.
     
  7. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    Really? I mean, I know, this is a thread trying to make Nomads better and I am supporting this completely, but ... Mary?

    The only hacker with two hacking devices isn't usefull to you? Mary alone is making my PanO opponent giving up on the Infowar-game. Both sides, meaning trying to kill my hackers using KHD and running TAGs.

    Lately I am running her more often than Interventors. Often she's my Data Tracker (if the Data Tracker doen't have to kill something) because of FD1. Sure NWI would be nice, but to be honest to call Mary not really usefull and to demand NWI on her sounds somewhat ... insatiable (sorry).

    I am completely with you regarding Grenzers and Moiras, maybe even the Lunokhod.
     
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  8. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Mary should have 3W ARM10 BTS15 and NWI
     
  9. Penemue

    Penemue Watcher
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    Thanks for the input! I just use an Interventor here and there (because we have painful LT problems), but Mary seldom sees the table for the points she costs. I'm not saying she's not useful, but she just doesn't stand out to me because of her squishiness.

    Can we avoid pointless hyperbole, please? :) It's not productive. This isn't at all what I was saying.
     
  10. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    steatlh HI is a great problem for nomad's hacking, our hackers cannot stop/slow them, so they can get out from our repeaters easy, and the most used, usually are better than us in the shotting. Smoked Hsien, Swiss, achiles and so. But not only those, 6th sense also helps them from the malus from surprise hacking (is not much, but is an extra). Of course, is a feeble point for the fireteam, and for supportware they have to break it first and spend a token later. I tryed a lot the interventor in the grenzer fireteam, but it was expensive, non-synergistic, and when I put it, was not needed. But when I went without it, I got to face those sthealthed units and see my hacking lacking
     
  11. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    Oh, come on. Of all the units and characters that Nomad have Mary is probably the most 'up to date' in terms of power creep. I really don't see anything wrong with her at the moment cause we'll never get nwi anyway.
     
  12. Penemue

    Penemue Watcher
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    Sure, but that doesn't mean I was advocating for what you suggested. Hyperbole doesn't help refine anything.

    "cause we'll never get nwi anyway" isn't really a good excuse, though :) There's been a lot of NWI lately.
     
  13. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    Just use them both :stuck_out_tongue:

    Don't let your Opponent even think about winning the hacking game.

    Mary isn't squishier than an Interventor with her ODD and she isn't made for gunfighting anyway.

    To be precise she has everything i want to see in Nomads: ODD, Hacking, Dirty Tricks (Pitcher and Zapper) and extra programs.
     
    #73 Spitfire_TheCat, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  14. SuperD

    SuperD Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see hacking re-done entirely - which obviously impacts Nomads more than most other forces.

    Right now it's such a hard-counter against certain targets (AHD versus TAGS, KHD versus AHDs) but sometimes your hackers are simply button pushers if you play against someone like Ariadna.

    I'd prefer it if those extreme results were removed and instead hacking had every-day impact. Why would any military use a big, expensive robot if it was so easily taken over by a cheerleader with a laptop?

    White noise is a great example of that sort of use. How about if we added more programs dedicated to targeting or interference that added or removed mods from shooters? Those mods could be based on templates to be consistent with other such applications like smoke grenades.
     
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  15. Penemue

    Penemue Watcher
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    That's fair. It might just be that my meta is hacking-light (relative to what I read on here re: other metas). :) An interventor and a KHD somewhere is usually enough.
     
  16. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    What really makes Mary Problems earn her points is not only the 2 hacking devices, but the ODD + Shock SMG. She is a legit threat.
     
  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    And that Zapper, the triple threat of Hacking, SMG, and EM2 DTW gives HI and TAGs a real conundrum when she pops around the corner.
     
  18. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Ideas:
    - Enable Hackers to remove ISO as well as Engineers do
    - Fairy Dust should work for TAGs (and REMs) as well
    - Enhanced Reaction should work for TAGs as well (but Assissted Fire would bebtoo good i guess)
    - Buff Spotlight or introduce a better version for HD+/AHD so it has a better chance to succeed
    - A supportware that grants Mimitism ('Cybercloak') to any trooper in hacking area

    @Mary: Please make Pitcher a Technical Weapon so she has a better chance of placing one....
     
  19. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    SSL2 is huge since you ignore suprise attacks (think about Ninja KHD) and stealth. The other thing is order efficiency espeially in Tunguska. Having your LT Interventor in a fireteam means protection as well as the ability to move him with the fireteam and fulfill objectives.
     
  20. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    CoC is a crutch for people that don't know how to defend them selves effectively, and it also doesn't fit with Nomad's style either. There's a reason why we often pay SWC for LTs

    1. Heavy shotguns especially with assisted fire will ruin anyone's day and doubly so if they are a fireteam or a cluster of troops.
    2. C+ with a shotgun is fine as it allows you to maneuver into a good position to fire from as well as avoid enemy lines of fire.
    3. Crazy Koalas
    4. They are the best body guard unit in the army, Especially when it comes to protecting that Cybermasked interventor LT hiding out in your DZ, or for stopping the puppetmaster from getting assassinated while the puppets are running rampant on their side of the table.