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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I think is for the combination riots+HDplus+zeros+morlocks

    That is a solid base that has a bit of everything needed. I think that before CJC rework, bakunin was the most solid sectorial, now I have doubts. Even with all of that, vainilla is still the most powerful (but also difficult) way for nomada IMHO
     
  2. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    Talking about Bakunin... a FO moderator profile would be nice; those guys don't know how to aim a gun; but the WIP 12 would made them at least mediocre at flash pulsing.
     
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  3. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    Might as well be "just" a flash pulse option (which is a technical weapon and uses wip), should be cheaper.
    I'd love to see them getting some loadouts in line with recent trends (like smg or DTWs, maybe madtraps?), mixed links with moiras, taskmasters, bots or a dire foes character moderator...
    Some of the old units really need rebalancing and point adjustment (like the one riot grrrls got in Human Sphere N3, I've rarely seen them before that):
    - Grenzers are just meh for their price, I don't see much use for msv1 in its current state (usually its msv2 or whatever), maybe they will be better if they change msv1.
    - Wildcats are okay points-wise but that 2swc HRL is just unbearable, would be nice if they got mixed link in corregidor too.
    - Moiras... multiterrain and odd is good, but their point cost is too high (especially since Aleph 4-4 nwi+immunity MI bloat; I mean wtf, why is it even called MI?)
    - Rest of bakunin's MI also feel overpriced, Multirifle healer for example - 37 points... yeah shooty doctor is good, but 37 point on 1-wound model is overpriced nowadays.
    - I'm pretty sure Lupe and Kowalski could use an update. Kowalski is not that awesome over Tomcat Engineer to pay extra 8 points.
     
  4. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    There are two wildcards that can mix in.
     
  5. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I've tryed daktaris wildcard. I prefer her alone with zondbots unless its LI. But 2 SWC for the rocket launcher is too much.
     
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  6. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I've been taking Haris+Lupe+Hacker/Engineer. Lupe not having FD1 is noticable thou. They're my favorite Core in concept so I hope they get worked on more than anything. May not make it in to the edition change book, althou I suspect the generic rule changes could help them out.
     
  7. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Riotstoppers would be thematic for moderators. Poor bastards will have seen some sights on that ship lol
     
  8. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Member

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    So after reading a little bit of nomad fluff, the army seems off. It is mesioned to be small and mobile, yet on the board it is more about board control. It talks about extensive use of remotes but there are not better then Pan O or the Yu Jing. They have the black labs but only a few units that seem to be illegal tech. Some of them read as being highly organized but they lack chain of command.
    What I want is more of a focus on mobility, more illegal tech, more reasons to take large numbers of remotes and higher availability of them. I want more AI. In the RPG there are remote impersonator used by the Nomads, that seems super cool where are they in the miniature game.
     
  9. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking about what I want to see in N4 for Nomads. I feel like most of the changes I want to see are general changes for the whole game, though there are some more specific changes I would like to see. As an exclusive Corregidor player, I can only comment on my sectorial.

    Generally:
    * Basic grunts across the game pay too much SWC for their SWC weapons. For example, I can never justify 1 SWC for a Light Grenade Launcher (at 0.5 I would consider it!), and 1.5 SWC for a MULTI Sniper Rifle Alguacil is too much to ever contemplate. Fireteams used to make these profiles viable, at least, but the era of mixed Fireteams is killing this off. Why would I take an Alguacil with a Missile Launcher when a Mobile Brigada will be the superior choice?
    * Hacking needs a redesign and a buff. There are too many largely meaningless programs that are obsoleted by obviously superior choices (eg the KHD Redrum issue). In my experience (meta dependent) Hacking tends to be useless, as no if no one fields anything Hackable your points investment was a waste. I would like to see all Hacking Devices relevant in all games. Basic HD can buff REMs. This is fine! AHD could perhaps offer relevant ways to deal with LI/MI/SK/WB (eg perhaps can scan for communications to reveal camouflaged troops, like a Sniffer?). The KHD is under-priced, but could also become a counter-intelligence kind of device, that counters Hacking in a broader variety of ways (just killing is a little too one-dimensional for my tastes). The WHD is probably irrelevant. The DHD could either be redesigned to a way to actually defend Hackable units against Hacking, or perhaps be merged with the KHD in my counter-intelligence concept. Nomads perhaps stand to benefit the most from improved Hacking.
    * I would like to see current ITS rule for AD become the standard. This would be a boon for Hellcats.
    * MI seem to be in a weird place. Some MI start up the table and their MOV 4-2 is fine (eg Hellcats, Prowlers). Some MI use long-range weaponry and their MOV 4-2 is fine (eg Intruders). Some MI are expected to march from the deployment zone, up the table and engage in closer combat, despite being horridly inefficient choices to do so (eg Wildcats). MI in general tend to be pretty fragile for their cost too, though some are cheap-enough that it is not so bad (eg Shock vs Intruder = sky is falling, Shock vs Wildcat = I can dig it). We have a long list of MI that would benefit from improvements here.
    * Generalist HI (eg Mobile Brigada, Orcs, etc) are a little over-priced for what they deliver. Updating the pricing formula to better reflect the value of ARM, CC, etc, would surely help.
    * TAGs are still generally not that good. FAT1 helps, especially for Geckos, but it is not enough.
    * CC, in general, is a little meh. I would not like to see Infinity become 40K, but units that are designed for CC are still often better out than in. There is also too much rules bloat here that could be easily consolidated to better reflect that CC is not the game's primary objective.
    * Nomads have the reputation of being the faction of dirty tricks, but in practice I feel we are more the generalist faction that does a little bit of everything, just not as well as the other factions do their speciality. I would like to see us able to properly meet our reputation. Leverage our huge Repeater network with Hacking that does something more interesting than currently possible. Leverage our huge access to E/M weaponry to somehow mess with the opponent's tools. Perhaps make our REMs able to interact with our troops in such a way that we can leverage them in dirty tricks (no idea how to go about that without rules bloat)? We have a large access to Adhesive, but I find this is rarely worth it: perhaps some tweaks here could add dirty tricks to the faction?
    * Better internal balance. I think Gecko vs Kriza vs Taskmaster is in a good place, as they are all offer distinct roles. Hollow Man vs Mobile Brigada vs Riot Grrl... not so interesting. Reverend Moira vs Intruder, not very good. Grenzers and Wildcats are poor options in general. In Corregidor, I could take an Alguacil Fireteam, a Wildcat Fireteam that under-performs, a Mobile Brigada Fireteam that under-performs, or an Alguacil/Brigada Fireteam... not great choices. I would like the options available to be more meaningful.

    Corregidor:
    * Alguaciles - Drop the 1 SWC for the Lt!
    * Carlota Kowalsky - That +8 points always kills it for me. Why take her when a Tomcat Engineer + a Transductor Zond is clearly superior? I would like to see some of her bloat dropped to make her a viable option, and maybe a tweak to her equipment so she brings something more unique than 'Tomcat++'.
    * Geckos - I still find the 0.5 SWC for a Mk12 baffling.
    * Hellcats - Drop the 1 SWC for the Lt, and the 0.5 SWC for the Deployable Repeater. I am undecided if 0.5 SWC for an Adhesive Launcher is priced right, or not. Situationally it is great, but often it is terrible, and it entirely dependent on your opponent's list.
    * Intruders - I feel they are a little too expensive for how fragile they are. Perhaps more of a testament of my play-style than anything, but I never felt I got 40 points of value out of one. The Combi Rifle and Hacker profiles seem kind of pointless too, so could do with a revision.
    * Tomcats - The D.E.P. profile is mediocre (0.5 SWC for a garbage weapon), and I find 0.5 SWC hard to swallow for a Deployable Repeater (especially in Corregidor).
    * Valerya Gromoz - I would like to see her actually offer something unique in the sectorial. Either a HD+, or replace Expel with an UPGRADE that is actually useful (eg White Noise).
    * Wildcats - The Heavy Rocket Launcher needs to be down to 1.5 SWC, as is normal for MI SWC weapons. I like the concept in Wildcats, but they do not seem to achieve anything, so require a serious re-examination of their role and tools.
     
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  10. Gunmage

    Gunmage Well-Known Member

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    Oh, a wishlisting thread. Cool. I do have some wishes. Although I don't know if this goes here, since it's not Nomad-specific.

    1) I'd like MSV1 to see through smoke. Without ignoring the -6 penalty, just the ability to draw LoF through it. Right now it seems that MSV1 gets the worst parts of having MSV and not having one, and MSV1 units that see play are the ones who would be fine even if they lost MSV. I'd like that to change. Also, it would make smoke less strong overall, and eclipse and White Noise more interesting.

    2) please rework Targeted. Right now, anything that causes it is a horrible waste of orders. If I understand correctly, the current state of affairs was caused by Guided weaponry being too strong in N2 - well it's dead now, can we move on?

    3) DHD and WHD. They are literally worse than useless right now - the best protection from hacking is having no hacking device. I see two ways of rework: one is to make them into a cyber-ARO piece, for example, giving them attack programs with 2-3 burst in ARO or maybe an ability to use hackable allies as Repeaters in Reactive turn, another is to turn them into a support piece that gives bonuses to other hackable units, like making firewalls impenetrable to KHDs,or increasing hacking burst in Reactive (like Overclock, but for hackers).

    P.S. Also, cybermines. I think i saw somewhere a proposition for Isolated-1 state, that would work a bit like stun - fall off at the end of current turn. Maybe they could cause that?
     
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  11. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Just delete the WHD and DHD from the game, then rework the shield programs and hand them out to the EVO, HD+ (even though they are already here) and AHD game wide. Gives them a bit of a buff against KHDs without upping how lethal they are and invalidating the KHD.
     
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  12. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    It's really hard to speculate, especially if edition changes will be as sweeping as N2 > N3. Making all basic HI fast left basic MI like Wildcats in the dust for most of the edition, reworking of Hacking actually made it matter and gave Nomads some strength, change to Surprise Shot and HMG nerfed Intruders, but not so much as to make them weak by any means, there were many minor Nomad specific changes like Hellcats losing shotguns or Grenzers and Bandits as newcomers.

    Not sure what I would expect of Nomads, but Hacking needs streamlining IMO. There's too many programs with the same effect, they could as well just be the same program but with levels (though that would screw with RPG lore consistency). I also believe taking control of TAGs shouldn't be on basic HD, but on AHD and HD+ only, to give more value to AHD and TAGs. It wouldn't hurt if AHD got one of the KHD killer programs as well, not necessarily Redrum, but it's weird the "assault" device cannot inflict Wounds.
     
  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'd like Prowlers to be better and for Bakunin links to be more interesting

    Other than that mostly it's all good, tbh. Certainly Nomads are still good at all the things that I think they should be good at, but are squishy and can be slow.
     
  14. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Give Geckos a lil' bump
    Resculpt the damn Morans (I know it's not rules but ugh) maybe take off that swc? too much?
    Give grenzers something, they kinda blow
    Brigada discount? 1 or 2 points will do
    Let Corregidor take the Meteor, come on
    Bump iguana a bit, poor guy is way behind
    Better link options for wildcats, they are basically ignored

    I will also be ok if none of this happened, nomads are pretty hot right now
     
  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I don't think Moran need to get stronger in any way.
     
  16. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Moran just need a better image...the current one is ugly af.
     
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  17. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    The Moran definitely needs a newer, better look. I think the SWC is fine, however. Infiltration + CrazyKoalas is functionally very similar to Infiltration + Minelayer, and he is priced correctly for that.
     
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  18. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    If anything should lose it's SWC costs it's the non doctor/engineer tomcats.
     
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  19. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Like the gangbuster, right? It was a n2 cost that get to n3

    There are a lot of SWC that should be revised in nomads.
     
  20. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    Lets see... like a Chasseur (0.5 SWC), a Clipsos (0.5 SWC), a Croc Man (0.5 SWC), a Guilang (0.5 SWC), a Scout (0.5 SWC), or a Shrouded (0.5 SWC). Most Infiltration + CH Skirmishers with Minelayer cost 0.5 SWC, so a Moran seems to be very much in-line with N3 costings.
     
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