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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    well... I have to dissagree with tsyklons, sorry. Maybe my experience might be biased, but, even if I field them, and I like them, in the game their performance doesn't get to the same level as the other 2 I mentioned. V360 is only a tool for when you mess up, and a too expensive one. Pitcher is not so needed, because we have a lot of different repeaters and that one migth fail (the tsyklon itself has repeater!), and while de x-visor is cool (I will not deny it), is not a gamebreaker. On the attributes, of course they are cool, but is better to win the FtF roll than to have a little more chances to survive, because most things that can take town the other 2 remotes, can do the same with tsyklon, but tsyklon will have more problems with them, while also being the expensive one.

    the daikini mention is in response to that could be dangerous having strong remotes with access to white noise. A stronger faction has a stronger combination, so I do not see problem in having some love in something that is part of our theme (or so says CB)
     
  2. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Well, my experience has certainly been different.
     
  3. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    While we're at remotes I think the human factions' EVO Remotes could be at lest 5 points cheaper to make them attractive. Further they should get a self defence weapon (Stun or ADH perhaps combined with neurocinetics) as well. So far they're seldomly (almost never) seen on the table - as my latest example can serve the German Infinity Championship where no human faction fielded one despite a relatively high advantage in two of the GIC's missions namely Transmission Matrix and Show of Force.

    So minimum 1 SWC (like the Meteor) will moderate it's use ;)

    You honestly need no Lt. apart from the Moderator, why do you want to pay more than 9 points for such a risk factor? OK, maybe the BSG Custodier profile as an additional Lt. for missions where a marker state will be useful.
     
  4. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Because Wip 12 on a LT is just awful. also the custodier doesn't have a BSG LT profile, but generally i have it do interventor style hacking support hiding out in the back field but it does make certain builds really awkward to play.
     
  5. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Depends on the rest of the list, the in built repeater is more for defence and applying supportware, the pitcher allows you to project hacking threat against a target without needing to expose the REM to any harm, if you have multiple KHDs or a AHD or two in the list this aspect is an amazing piece of utility, if you don't then it's less so.
     
  6. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Tsyklon can put a pitcher in the enemy DZ on a 12 from your DZ (much better if linked). Unlike a Moran you make that decision after deployment is finished and it can reach hiding support hackers.
     
    colbrook likes this.
  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Of course it can. My point is that no other faction would say that paying 30+ points for that build would be so useful, because I am not refering only to the pitcher, but all of its build that makes it pay 5-10 points more than its trully worth. I just would like to see that a 30s point piece does more work (or do the same easier) than a 20s do...but at the moment it is not, only in some not so usual scenarios against objectives that we have full of other options as good as them
     
  8. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    So when is a Lt.'s WIP not awful?
    During my five years of successfully playing Bakunin (and even Vanilla) with a Moderator Lt. and only a handful of games was really decided by the Lt. roll thus I just fail to see why I should burden any other troop with the liability of being the Lt. as long as there's no way to prevent LOL.

    The BSG Custodier should be a Lt. option in N4 Bakunin.
     
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  9. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    When it's 20+, no?
     
  10. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    The thought of having to add more glue to a Bakunin fight scene just doesn't sit right. *Shudders*
     
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  11. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I run moderator LT virtually every game unless it's BTV or Decapitation. Other than getting used to going second (which I think is a valuable skill) I'm never really punished for it.
     
    Tristan228 likes this.
  12. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    What's with Hunting Party? So far the Custodier's Cybermask is always useful in Missions where the Lt.'s identity is open information.
     
  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Moderators just need Taskmasters and Lunokhods to link with them. Hard to understand how that hasn't already happened.

    Nomads REMs are supposed to be a faction strength, and they totally are when they can go point on a link, which makes sense in so many ways. It works great for Tsyklons in CJC, which go from overcosted to total beast with that one change.

    Taskmasters in moderator links is not only fluffy but gives them an interesting Lt build without taking away the traditional Nomad obvious Lt problem. I'd love to see a Taskmaster plus 2 Morlocks Haris too. Again, fluffy as hell and so fun.
     
    Savnock, neostrider, Del S and 2 others like this.
  14. DirtyNomad

    DirtyNomad New Member

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    Start playing N3 again after a year off and I come back on the forums to find talk of N4

    Raising a glass to the (hopefully) impending death of nested abilities!

    Purely from a model perspective I hope we get new Moran and Zond (+Meteor) sculpts.

    New Sectorial-only profiles would be cool, and a bit of rework on our MI to make it sing again.

    On the whole though I'm still in a happy place with my Nomads.
     
  15. L2590

    L2590 Member

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    I already posted my more general thoughts on changes to N4 in the main megathread. So with that on to my beloved Nomads. I’m keeping this specific to units. As stated in the main megathread, this is only my experiences as a recently returned player. I dn't do tournaments and haven't played in earnest for years so excuse me if any of these seem a bit redundant.


    Zoe and Pi-Well
    : With how prevalent KHDs are I feel that Zoe needs a BTS score as I find myself reluctant to run the duo now as she’s too vulnerable to gamble on running as a hacker or engineer. I’d also like them to be linkable as a duo.

    Grenzers and Wildcats: Grenzers are still just worse Intruders and I’m reluctant to run them in vanilla or Tunguska outside of the Sensor profile. Wildcats have it even worse but at least they're cheap enough to run as a Haris team. They’re both too slow to be used to control the board and lack the durability of Intruders, Sin-Eaters or Hollow Men. I'd like to see them get extra skills like bio-immune to compensate for their low movement.

    Intruders: I would gladly pay more Pts for them to be 4-4, as it stands I often run them but have to play them but they’re very unforgiving compared to more mobile troops like Hollow Men and Riot Grrls. Again, I feel they need a minor buff the make them more competitive with HI.

    Prowlers: Prowlers almost had a great buff but BTS 0 makes bioimmune too small a survivability buff to justify running them over Spektrs, despite their superior firepower. I'd like to see them get a BTS score and maybe higher ARM.

    Reverend Healers: Sadly Rev Healers have the N2 Imperial Agent problem of being too jack-of-all-trades. Too slow and not good enough in CC to be brawlers, not a big enough WIP upgrade over a Daktari or Tomcat to be worth it as a Doctor (and flat out inferior to Avicenna), all the faults of MI and only mimitism for protection. I would like to see them get some buffs like ODD and Martial Arts, even if it means losing EXP CCW.

    Reverend Moiras: As is often repeated, the combination of slow movement and 1W, 0BTS and no immunities makes them very easy to counter with very cheap models and I hope some or all of these factors are addressed, even if they end up costing more. Again, I would like to see them get immunities and maybe better CC as well.

    Sin-Eaters: Contrary to what some of you seem to feel, my experience is that Sin-Eaters smaller size, mimitism and higher BS makes them much more reliable than Reaktion zonds. Giving them Sixth sense just removes counter-play which isn’t good on such a powerful skill. Nonetheless, I’d like to see more profiles for them (e.g. 2 SMGs, multi-rifle) so they can be run in different circumstances.

    Kriza Boracs: One of the big reasons I got back into infinity was the MK12 Kriza. But since FA2 doesn’t stack with SF then the costs of the 360 visor seem quite high.

    Mobile Brigada/Hollow Men/Riot Grrls: Simply, I genuinely believe that Riot Grrls are one of the few OP units in the game for their costs. They were very over-buffed between editions and now drown out other HI in Vanilla and all other links in Bakunin now they have BS13, specialists and true long range options. I don’t have as much of a problem with Hollow Men because they have some very exploitable weaknesses in their low PH, and dire CC although I do feel religious should over-ride V:Courage to give them another overt weakness and they could stand to lose a point of ARM and BS. I would like to see an increase in the costs and lower the BS of Riot Grrls and reduce the costs of Brigada slightly to make them more competitive with each other and the Hollow Men: The Grrls bring more initial durability and MSVs to the table but are a gamble because of Frenzy, Brigada are solid at everything but excel at nothing and Hollow Men are hyper-mobile but very vulnerable to ambushes. It also makes Moiras a more competitive option in Bakunin and Hollow Men links less of a must pick in Tunguska.

    Iguana: Iggy is a beautiful, fun unit but 2STR hurts him a lot because of his huge size and not being able to carry over the bonuses of Fatality 1, Tactical Awareness and repeater makes the Operator a less valuable trade off. I’d like to see either STR 3 or the operator gets some buffs, even if it costs a few more pts as a result.

    Lizard: Lizzy is still a sore thumb unit for me. In a faction and sectorial filled with exotic, weird units, she’s just a vanilla TAG and you’d only run her over long, tall Szally for the HGL. I’d love to see her reworked to be more weird and unique.

    Meteor Zond: The 1 SWC is a pain to justify especially now that FO locks are easier to avoid. Sure Triangulated fire is nice and being able to drop on a hacker and fry them is powerful. I hope the Meteor Zond gets either a small stat upgrade or an SWC drop even if it costs more Pts.

    Uberfalkommando: I love this unit and again, would just like to see more variant profiles for the Chimera and the pupniks.

    Sectorials:

    As I detailed in the main thread – I feel that mixed link teams was the right way to go but that it was approached from the wrong angle, resulting in these deathballs with cheap troops giving huge bonuses to an already strong troop. I feel it should be more linking cheap troops in expensive troop teams rather than the other way around (e.g. up to 2 Alguacils can join Brigada).

    Corregidor: Wildcats need some love anyway but otherwise, aside from the general issues I raised I feel CJC is in a really good spot, with lots of ways to play them with and without links.

    Tunguska: I’d like to see running a lot of hackers made more viable but that’s more down to hacking rules than Tunguska itself. Grenzers need some love in general. Otherwise I love the sectorial, it’s got defined strengths and weaknesses, some of the most fun and characterful units in the game (Puppetmasters, Zondnauts and Hollow Men) and isn’t just another sectorial of elites but I have very limited experience with them.

    Bakunin: Bakunin needs a rework similar to Corregidor, everyone agrees on that. I’d like Clockmakers as wildcards in the same way Daks are in Corregidor. I also agree that mixing the various Observants in a single team is a great way forward (even if it means the Moira hacker will never be used ...unless you give her a KHD/WHD that is, the former seems very apt). I’d also love to see more fluff appropriate links like Taskmaster Lts and Morlocks and FTO Chimeras that can link with Moderators. Fireteam Duo options for Clockmakers + Zonds would be neat too.
     
  16. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    With our KHD support, it'll make mostr other people think twice about going after her as well as us being able to take theirs down first, in a vaccum sure she will go down most of the time to KHDs (though Stop does help somewhat), but in the wider context of the army and on the table she ends up being fine. when it comes to hacking most people are far more gun shy than they need to be

    4-2 isn't that huge of a draw back, I'd love for them to pick up a AP marksman rifle profile, the HMG is often far too unwieldy at times for it to be properly effective. As for putting it on par with our HI, it already is offensively speaking if it doesn't surpass them in a lot of regards, the only things where it is lacking is that it is screwed by sixth sense, shock, it's not crit resistant, and anything armed with a DTW is going to ruin it's day, all of which are more or less fine trade offs for a BS13, MSV2, Camo gunfighter that currently has FD1(which i really hope it pick up permanently).

    fix the cost of Arm and give it MA1, will go a long way towards helping it.

    While it isn't wierd and unique as far as the game goes, in Nomads it is unique in that it's the only HGL and MULTI-HMG in the faction which allows to bring to bring some interesting tools to the table.
     
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  17. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The SS2 is is the biggest thing hurting them, althou more common shock isn't great. The HMG is still a great profile but it's good because it is a smoke-ignoring HMG that is protected by a token state. Mainly punches down and goes in to suppressive fire over objectives so they can't use smoke.

    I miss having them to clear ranged AROs but there's far fewer targets for that now. There was a time when I would take an MSR every game to break AROs then suppress the map. I could waste an order on smoking him up if the target matched his sniper range. It was my favorite unit in the game. It's not that useful anymore.
     
  18. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, that intruder sniper was THE piece for me back in the day but the game has changed around him and he feels like a relic of a bygone era now
     
    loricus and Tourniquet like this.
  19. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I got him with the corregidor starter in my first set, back when he had the random point tax in N2. OG. He started a joke here that it doesn't matter who wins as long as you kill the Intruder.
     
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  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Intruders for me are a bit too expensive, specially when they are our only MSV2 (if there were other options, I am sure they would be played less, and seen worse as they are seen now).

    The problem with sin eaters vs reaktion, is that almost everything that counters a reaktion, will do the same against a sin eater. That, and the active turn, where a buffed reaktion can work fine, but a sin eater can't

    About remotes in links as our strenght, the problem I see is that it has become something too comon, but with better remotes in other factions. Our remotes need something more, not only link options, but also a review in their costs. Paying more for a 360 visor than for a MS2 is awful
     
    Spitfire_TheCat likes this.