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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I would love to see that. I would also love to see some vanilla only units, possibly joint ship tech.
     
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  2. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    How about some of those Templar survivors that TJC totally isn't hiding.....

    I'm all for Sectorial and vanilla only profiles/units/ava bumps, they tend to make for more interesting sectorial design and gameplay than Fireteams with SEF being the best example of this.
     
  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    A mindset for N4 that I would love is "how can we make sectorials more than a fireteam". Not that they haven't done that at all.
     
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  4. Freki

    Freki Active Member

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    Don't you enjoy AVA 5 on both intruders and hellcats?
    Sarcasm aside, I know CB would not design CJC the same way if it was to be released tomorrow.

    My main point made in the general thread was for CB to be more reactive with balance and approach their game more like a video game company would. Just the time between updates will be significantly longer.
    This would mean sectorial reviews being more ambitious than just adding some wildcards and FT options.

    Anyway they have plenty to work on in 2020 with Defiance and N4.
     
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  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I actually use 3 of either sometimes. What they really need is Moran/Intruder to be AVA1 in Vanilla and Hellcats 2. Corregidor has never been bad, just sometimes hard to justify over Vanilla.
    Currently it's really good althou I would have liked to see that without relying so much on the links. At least it was partly Duos that helped so much. Geckos are in a really fun place and should be used as an example designing other factions.
     
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  6. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    To me the combination of Inferior infiltration and undercover officer represent something really incompetent in his job; like if Officer Dumbass manages to approach the gang/organisation he has to spy out he already blew his cover :D
    This profile should get Inferior Impersonation and obviously an AVA restriction.
     
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  7. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I honestly meant Inferior Impersonation when I made that post, so yes I agree haha

    I wouldn't put an AVA restriction on, just a SWC that would make it a serious investment.
     
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  8. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    what about gaining some glue template?

    time ago, nomads were "limited" by CB in special ammunitions, no monofilament, no viral (only in cc for chimera) and not misile launcher (template EXP) in DDO/TO HI platform (actually, kriza had misile launcher in its concept art, with a total of 6 weapons numbered, but there was no ML in the end). With glue seems to me that has happened the same as with ODD and steel phalanx when they came out, but in a bigger scale. Something that was in "our theme", was given to other faction in better quality and higher quantity with not much to compensate

    other thing I am thinking we should get is higher avaiability in remotes. Bostria has said several times that the remotes is "our thing", jet in there, we have not the most powerful (ruishi and bulleter are ones of the most powerful out there, even if Piwell is near), not the cheaper (ours have climbing+, wich make them more versatile, but also more expensive, not a bad trade tough), and not the higher avaiability (in vainilla we have the most common avaiability, but in sectorials, we are more in the normal-low side
     
    #268 Armihaul, Nov 26, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    What about glue template being a huge mistake in general? :/
     
  10. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind them although I do think it's a shame there's another weapon out there making ARM less useful. On the other hand they make Engineers more useful so.
     
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  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Not just ARM, but also wounds / structure on top of usual disregard of pretty much any f2f abilities as per usual for DTW, so basically all of your most expensive pieces of statblock.

    Also, I do not think AoE Imm weapon does make Engineers much more useful at anything except wasting up to entirely of your subsequent turn only to undo part of the job opponent has done, that is before handing turn back to them again.
     
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  12. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Dangerous to make a strong Nomads REM with access to white noise and 15 WIP engineers. Maybe they can drop the repeater.
     
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    REMs being our thing is a case of not necessarily having the best possible versions compared to other factions, but having more at a distinctly above average level whilst being very reliable (see puppets, Pi Well, and Lunokhods) and easy to support (thanks to our saturation of good engineers and hackers).
     
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  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Also can we get some more halfway decent midcost LT options in BJC? You go from a 9 point wip 12 moderator to a 30pt Moira (though youre probably going to pay the extra 4 points for a custodier), with the next two options being a significant jump from there (Kusanagi and the Taskmaster in the 40's). There's no real in between option in the mid to high teens through to the mid to high 20's like the Securitate, or Wildcat, or Interventor.
     
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  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I wouln't call "reliable" a troop that can die just because another dude dies without even having the option to deffend himself.

    I don't see as dangeous making nomad remotes stronger. Tsyklons are too expensive. That V360 is more expensive than the MSV2 in the ruishi or the ODD in the bulleter, and less useful than both of them, and our support programs are exactly the same that other factions use. Meteor pay too much SWC because that repeater. If hacking were good enough, ok, but it isn't at the moment. Piwell is a beast, our best remote in my opinion. The others are ok, not better, not worse, but our disp is in the mid-low side instead in the mid-high.

    White noise is a good and powerful thing, but there are things like linked daikini (with BS13 or markmanship) with access to it. Only Tsyklons (much more expensive) get similar to that, but they are not so powerful (no mimetism, which is the big difference). This is a problem I see: with nomads, everything seems that is going to be too powerful (because lot of people see them as "the top tier"), but other factions (that are the ones with best results in the ITS, fairly better than nomads) have it and it is not a problem.
     
  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Talking balance before N4 isn't really useful because things will be shaken up. I would like to see more REM in support roles rather than just a power unit. Using the most remotes but not having the most combat power would work well I think.

    Althou Corregidor already feels like they have excellent REM integration just from access to Core and Duo with Geckos. Bakunin gets their character Rem and Tunguska has the Zond bikes and Puppets. I dunno I think it's alright. A unique Corregidor one or a unique profile for the Tsyklon would be cool but it already feels good to me.
     
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  17. schoon

    schoon Member

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    I'd tend to agree on this. The current meta is all about Fireteams and order conservation - I'd like to see a little less emphasis there.
     
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  18. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    I think you're glossing over a few things. The Tysklons are expensive because of a lot of gear they carry, pitchers, 360 visor, climbing plus, and higher arm and BTS. The rui shi, and bulleteer are much more streamlined builds, true, but I wouldn't agree they're better, its nice to be able to throw out pitchers etc.

    Also Daikini don't have repeaters, its not a given at Daikini or Gauruda for that matter will be able to access support ware, or white noise, whereas Tysklons etc carry one so have much easier access to those tools.

    Anyway I think if ARM and BTS cost scaled a bit differently there would be a lot less complaints about the nomad combat remotes. I certainly agree with you about the Meteor's SWC cost, thats a travesty IMO.
     
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  19. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    There are very few things in my experience that actually scare him, Spec fire/guided (squalos, Emily), Impersonators, and super aggressive AD drop. two of these three can be defended against, but if they want to go after him instead of my LT or some other High value piece and eat a couple of mines, crazy koalas and conventional ARO's in the process I'm okay with that as as far as I'm concerned he got his value by baiting out a piece that was going to cause actual issues. as for someone bum rushing your DZ that just comes down to whether or not you know how to defend against enemy aggression well or not, and if you do and they still get there then the dice arent your biggest fan in that game and they just wasted a bucket load of orders to kill the puppet master instead of your specialists, other high value pieces or your LT, or play mission. So again net profit as far as I'm concerned.

    As to the bot itself, puppets are very durable, easy to hide an manoeuvre, you don't lose orders when they die, shoot accurately and hit hard (at arm 4 or greater the AP marksman rifle is basically a MK12 with shock and it only gets better from there) to the point where they are often taking down targets that are way above their weight class reliably.

    Yes the Rui Shi and Bulleteer are powerful, but so is the Tsyklon/ Lunokhod but in a less obvious way meaning you can catch people off guard (which is very much Nomad's style) when you look at the RS and Bulleteer's skills and equipment individually you get something that is easily recognisable as strong, the Sputniks when looked at with the same approach are kind of underwhelming but when it's looked at as a composite piece with mutually supportive and synergistic kit you end up with a strong and interesting piece.

    First it has climbing plus which allows for it to get into good positions, avoid LOF and hunt things in hard to reach places and with it's 6-4 move it can quite easily get where ever it needs to.
    The Xvisor is quite impactful as it allows for the pitcher to shoot to the 24" on 12s, and when used in conjunction with the MML2 support ware allows to hit most targets in cover on 12s out to the 32" which is not something that should discounted.
    While the 360 is an expensive piece of kit it does allow for some fun interactions with the above, because when the Tsyklon is in Suppressive fire it is just a turret of death that you can't get around but out flanking it, and the xvisor means you ignore the -3 band and you don't care about cover. combine this with arm 3 and BTS 6 make it difficult to dislodge without committing a serious amount of resources or luck.

    As for the Lunokhod, it is quite possibly one of the best bodyguard units in the game, throw up the B2 ARO on it, plant the koalas in standby and dare your opponent to come after your support pieces.

    TJC's Tsyklons also have FD1 which is great if you integrate the Feuerbach with any standard hacker or EVO for the extra burst in ARO pretty much everything is in it's good range band.
     
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  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I had my 5 man link with a feuerbach tsyklon run forward and use climbing+, Marksmanship2 and the x-visor to blast everything in the area. That's 3-B 15-BS from 0-16 (before visual mods) hitting with DA AP. Now that is unexpected. New hacker hero coming out with some good anti-hacker stats to compliment shooting the pitchers to unfair ranges with the x-visor as well.
     
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