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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. borisgreymenace

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    i think hacking needs to feel powerful in N4, and a little more intuitive, so that the choice between a HMG and hacker trooper doesn't feel so one sided. and Nomads should be home to the best hackers and remotes, with strong competition from ALEPH and CA. hacker profiles should feel like a good investment even when less effective against low tech armies. as others suggested, a mix of buffs for Nomads' B level competencies and some sort of order disruption or additional camo discovery tools. or maybe just some faction specific programs that really put the best hacking factions (ALEPH and CA included) head and shoulders above their less skilled counterparts. and for balance overall, it would be nice if there were no such thing as "auto-take" units.

    as spitfire mentioned, spec ops needs to be redesigned. right now, it feels like it's a campaign mechanic that doesn't have a clear role in one off or tournament games. is it supposed to be cheap access to the faction's best tools? is it supposed to be inclusion of otherwise unvailable gear and skills? or just a way to find tailored kits among the typical gear for line troops to keep lists relevant in all missions? CB needs to clarify their role and then i think the rest will fall into place. personally for me, would love to see a combi+lft option and HD+ access as well as MSR + MSV2 option for BJC and TJC. but if spec ops are too special for the price, then it encrouaches on the utility of elite troopers. in any event, the Vortex needs a resculpt. real static model with boring options and the head doesn't seem to scale with other models.

    also, Tunguska could use some more attention. of the four characters available, only Mary is a proper Tunguskan (not to dismiss Raoul or Perseus who are great) where as CJC and BJC get three faction characters. would love to see new character profiles--a hero Grenzer, Kriza, Spekr or even Securitate would enhance the personality of the sectorial and plug some gaps in the roles those troops can play, especially Grenz and Securitates.

    but Grenzers are always going to be in a weird place. MI are the bastard sword of the army list. never as cheap as a long sword nor as powerful as a claymore. Grenzers always "lose" in comparisons with those who either do it cheaper or better. some different tools might help improve their utility, maybe a more tailored role to be anti-WB, especially considering how much a Szalamandra costs. but based on the fact that there is no Grenzers box or even single sprues for existing models, it seems like their intent is just to boost Securitate links or bodyguard Interventors. if that's the case, then they should be redesigned for that use case instead of remaining an overpriced MI core link. and Interventors should be a wildcard troop or also count as a Securitate for fire team composition.

    which brings me to the lowly Securitate troop. Vet L1 is good, but that hacker profile needs a little something else. it's crazy to me that you can get an Interventor KHD for 1pt less than the line trooper hacker. HD+ for Securitate might be OP, but some sort of program upgrade or something is necessary. i don't think there's another elite hacker profile cheaper than the line troop hacker in other sectorials. and considering you have to buy him if you want a Grenzer LT/FO/Haris or Securitate HMG, the model should have more use than a proxy for something better (or just replace him with a Feuerbach sculpt).

    lastly, it feels a little greedy to ask since we have Raoul, but TJC and BJC need more AD. let Corregidor have the most/best profiles, but we're all space people. maybe just some sectorial specific kits of the Meteor to give it a larger threat profile? and while i'm being greedy, can the MULTI Kriza get an underslung LFT? my budget Kriza is looking at the Brigada jealously...
     
  2. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    The funny bit about Spec-Ops is they literally only just GOT redesigned in Daedalus Falls... and they're either out the window next year or getting "fixed" again.

    The Securitate Box will forever give me a frowny face... I'd have preferred no hacker and a Fueurbach instead, or at least the FB in place of the Grenz and a Grenz box soon after with the ML, BS, Combi and Spitty. Instead we're hoping the FB Securitate comes in with the Grenzers whenever they arrive.[​IMG]


    Maybe two birds could be killed with one stone - the Grenzer fluff mentions a Colonel Steranko, maybe he could be a character Grenzer/Wildcard.
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    This is more of a campaign and ITS issue than N4. and if you are playing Spec Ops you have to realise that you are going to playing with some weird janky rules that wont be up to the usual level of balance.

    Also can we please stop bringing ITS and Campaign issues into N4 threads? All it does is muddy up the discussion and don't really help much if at all as they have nothing to do with the core of the rules.

    I agree with you here. However, looking at a lot of MI's (especially Nomad MI) kit they seem to be more of a combat tool box, packing exttra secondary weapons and equipment that help engage multiple unit types and mission objectives. For example the Wildcats carry LFTs, D-Charges, Stun Grenades and deployable repeaters. Grenzers have their MSV, breaker sidearms standard, LFTs, Sensor, BMV and a large option of support weapons (all of which they seem to pay way too much for). All of this utility is before you take into account that most of them have a better stat line than their LI counterparts (normally increased BS). It all comes down to whether or not you value the extra kit enough to take them or not. The Grenzer MSR and FO are pieces I think most people should give a second look, especially in TJC.

    Where things get real screwy is when the MI cost as much the resident HI almost point for point (looking you BJC and TJC), due to them having far superior stats, durability and crit mitigation, manoeuvrability, and in the case of the RG v Moira comparison the better kit.

    I left out things like Prowlers, Intruders and other solo operators as they are different beasts entirely but still fit the more toolbox nature of Nomad MI.

    They used to have SS baseline, but I would love to see them pick up Stop! or Sucker Punch, similar to how the Deva picked up Lightning in OSS.

    each of the sectorials focus on different aspects of Nomad Asymetrical warfare. BJC is mostly infiltrators and cheap units that punch above their weight and trade up reasonably well. TJC is technical Asym through hackers, jammers and also where a a lot of our firepower. CJC is attacking from odd and unexpected angles via AD. That being said, I would love more AD in the faction as it is one of the best ways to shake up a pinned board state and make space for the rest of the army to operate.
     
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  4. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Member

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    Another problem with MI is that SWC weapons are too expensive considering that they are more likely to lay in the mud due to a lucky hit to the face of its bearer. I am more than willing to take an HMG for 1 SWC on a line guy or for 2 SWC on a strudy HI. But 2 SWC for a Wildcat HRL and even 1.5 SWC for any other SWC weapon? Being cheap here could migitate the glas-cannonish feeling of elite-priced MI.

    Gesendet von meinem Nokia 6.1 mit Tapatalk
     
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  5. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Given they had the chance to correct this in the CJC "re-work" and elected to not revise the SWC costs, I can only assume that's how it's meant to work. But hopefully we get lucky and they do fix it in N4.
     
  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    in the late times, the SWC is getting increased in some options for other factions, we are stop beign the ones with more SWC overcosts. The problem with that kind of fix, is that the outdated, non-played models because they pay too much SWC will remain un played, and the overused out there that have optimized points and SWC with no overprice (or even a discount) will remain played.

    the HRL wildcat was paying 2SWC in n2 because of the assault pistol (wich was 0'5 in most of the models), now in n3 that pistol pays 0SWC, but the wildcat remains with the overcost even after all this time, and after the "rework" (which was just a minor rework compared with others out there). Seems to me that the SWC overcosts are just one more of the nomads "limitations" we have, and will remain there. It would be nice that they went out though
     
  7. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    None of the profiles had their points or SWC adjusted. That probably doesn't mean they looked at them all and decided each one happened to be perfect.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I dunno, ego's a hell of a drug.
     
  9. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    That's true, it can make you feel psychic or even omnipotent.
     
  10. geckoguy

    geckoguy Member

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    this is purely due to jealousy but after seeing the gamma and sogarat i want a feuerbach option for kriza, ideally with a model (a sort of sniper pose with the FB would both be hilarious and really cool)
     
  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    In the concept, there were up to 6 weapons listed (in the 2 concept art), there were missile launcher for example. I don't know why CB decided to take it off. Maybe those weapons were the reason for that awful haris option, but at the same time, taking the weapons out made the haris a waste of space, but they didn't re-check it
     
  12. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Not much to be jealous of.
    Even in not very optimized MAF that piece is of little interest.
     
  13. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Concept dossiers often include weapons to fill space or that aren't on the final unit.
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    more than that, I think is that the dossiers are made before testing, and then sometimes some weapons are taken out. Seems to me a waste of time creating two dossiers with 6 different weapons when the unit only have access to 3
     
  15. Dr.Lycosid

    Dr.Lycosid Member

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    Actually, I got the impression that MAF players quite like their Feuerbach (+Assault pistol) FA2 Sogarat, but (IMO rightfully) complain that there is no Lieutenant option for it. At least I like it, but I am a very causal and not very competent ITS player.

    In terms of the Kriza, I don't think that we need more options. Of course, options are always nice, but Kriza is in a good spot, especially in Vanilla. But overall I just don't seem to be able to write TJC-list that are convincing to myself. Maybe its just me. I was waiting very long for this sectorial and like its units in isolation. But I am unfortunately not comfortable with list building in TJC. I can't even put my fingers on where it itches me and so there is really no constructive value to this post. Sorry :P
     
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  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Can confirm, this is an accurate impression. :)
     
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  17. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    In general one thing I would like are more strong profiles that are Sectoral only. Bakunin could really benefit from that, like Shas. Something like Moderators with Inferior Infiltration, Specialist Operative and a Light Riotstopper that cost SWC 0.5 to represent undercover officers that would make the Sectoral cool and different
     
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  18. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    AVA Total Inferior Infiltration Morlocks! That would be a blast! :D
     
  19. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    If you're impetuous you lose the skill so uh
     
  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    why?