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Nomads in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    Yes, it's always like this. The whining factions will get the best stuff ... and since Nomads isn't whining ... they won't.

    Instead they get boring Spec-Ops.

    I just hope, someone at CB plays Nomads, so we get something decent as well ...
     
  2. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    The worst part is that the most whining are the ones with better ITS results, and the ones who CB got the most though into when developing them.
     
  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's hard being so morally superior. It really hurts our faction but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make.
     
  4. SpectralOwl

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    Yu Jing, the whiniest faction, got a piece of Equipment (Cube) it can't even use on its Spec-Ops. Nomads got access to Chain of Command, the only non-Voodootech and Impersonation skill type in the game they didn't already have. Believe me, complaining does not affect CB's decision making in the slightest.
     
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  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Is it whining if it's justified? Vanilla Nomads is one of the most powerful factions in the game btw.
     
  6. SpectralOwl

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    Under the present meta. A weakening of Camo and defense-in-depth, delaying board control in N4 could be very dangerous to the traditional Nomad game plans, and require very different strategies. My main experience with Nomads comes through Bakunin which may colour this a little, but outside the balancing debacle that is the Kriza the Nomads have always had to outlast their opponents and win with slower, trickier techniques, so they're actually way more likely to be affected by the rules changes of a new edition than most other factions since those complex plans have more components that could be broken.
     
  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Maybe is it, but had reasons. The whiniest without reason for it has been always pano, but CB rush to shut up them giving things (Remember their bad wip engineers and the tech bee that was a civilian and was not intended to be in the game? wip boost for engineers, also they got a WIP 14 hacker in HI with heavy weapon. The whinings about bolts? B appeared the next day to soothe the people and give extra things, and later got 3 boosts (no other unit in the game had that, and there were worse). MO was never intended to be a sectorial, but when CB announced the sectorials and was not in the list (the knights sectorials, had no name then) CB decided to submit (that's why was so badly dessigned then, they improvised a lot). And there are a lot more (the crabs when they whinned about the pilots, the S6 in small TAGs that was not intended for other but the gecko and maybe a few new ones after CB confirmed, before silouettes that all pano TAGs had to go to 55mm base, etc)

    after pano, aleph, and EC...so I think that they are more in the middle table. Nomads are solid, with a good base but without real powerful troopers that bend the game as the previous 3 do (yes, there is the kriza... which is powerful, but not to aquila/achiles/hac tao/Omega levels, and has been limited in options from what was intended)
     
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  8. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    We hat CoC before the change. SpecOps ... a very bad subject.
    Nomads SpecOps are just lackluster.
    I already summed this up in a rant post before, but only a few points:
    PanO got Access to an ODD-Feuerbach-Trooper with BS12. For 11 points.
    PanO gets a Jammer that might even be linkable.
    This alone is more than enough.

    What did Nomads get? Metachemistry? On a trooper that's when used this way is worse then a Morlock for half the points?

    My suggestions can be found on page 1 of this thread.
     
    #228 Spitfire_TheCat, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    Armihaul likes this.
  9. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    nomad spec op is the most booring of the game. It has some useful builds, the clasical ones (tri-licensed, chain of comand, mimetism+MSR), but no new build (maybe MSV1+MSR, but is not so good), no fun build (unless you think random is fun), no trickster/surprise build (no holo or AD) and the new tricks cannot be used with any of their fireteams (super jump or climbing plus are for solo soldiers, but their profile is not so good for it). Is directly the most booring and lackluster one of them all. I think only some NA2 brawler spec ops are worse because some of them cannot enter a 5-man fireteam with similar options, but they got access to AD at least, so they can manage the solo hunter
     
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  10. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Nomads spec-ops isn't the most boring, it's just simply one of the more boring that also happen to be in the faction that has so much diversity available in regular lists.
     
  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    maybe our concept of "boring spec ops" is different. Which one is more boring than the nomad?

    yes, nomads has a lot of diversity, as all other factions do, I am not sure nomads have more diversity, just better inner balance which brings more options to the lists. Think that, for each faction they have limited or bloqued access to some tools, but access to almost everything else, we have blocked access to comandment skills (No strategos, no CoC, no NCO, and so). But also, we have limited access to good shooting (medium BS, limited MSV1 and only 1 MSV2, and even ODD, something that was there to compensate the lack of TO and a nomad thing is more present in other factions). Even our hacking is not so diverse! all programs but white noise are avaiable to almost all other human factions in one form or another. Our hacking is only better thanks to the repeaters, but while we need to choose killer/specialist or repeater, others have it combined in the same profile, so they don't need so much diversity: they have more of what they need in the same profile instead of be forced to choose
     
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  12. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I would nominate aforementioned YJ spec-ops as equally boring.

    And, as mentioned before, Nomads can at least plug CoC hole if they feel the need to do that using spec-ops.
    They don't have anything really hilarious to build though, unlike some other factions.
     
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  13. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    While overall I agree with your post (YuJing SpecOp being equally boring and nothing hilarious for Nomads SpecOps) I'd like to add the following:
    IMO the SpecOp should not be there to "plug holes" like a CoC SpecOp for Nomads would (I never played the CoC SpecOp). The Counterintelligence SpecOp for PanO does this too, as well as every Multi-Specialist-SpecOp for PanO.

    I think the SpecOp should be a Special Forces guy who uses the best things the faction has to offer in a new and creative way.

    If you see it this way, the ODD-Feuerbach-BS12 SpecOp for PanO is fine. PanO has ODD, PanO has Feuerbach, Firepower is their strength, ODD-Feuerbach-BS12-SpecOp sounds like PanO, very well.

    The Counterintelligence SpecOp for PanO and the Jammer-SpecOp on the other hand is more like ... nope. PanO has no Counterintelligence and to jam things is no strength of PanO (do they know how to operate electronics?)

    But something similiar is missing for Nomads. The CoC SpecOp for Nomads is so "un-nomad-like" that I don't like it. But there are no options that are working with the strength of Nomads. No KHD, AHD, HD+, no Crazy Koalas, no E/M-weaponry or AD-capability or Infiltration. Heck, even a MI-Spec-Op would fit Nomads, since we are (one of) the leading MI-factions.

    Well, there are many, many options, if just one or two would be incorporated, it would be better than the boring Multi-Specialist or CoC-SpecOp.
     
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  14. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    There's another argument to be made though, that most faction-defining things imaginable are those that are already readily accessible without any need for an extra. While you can make Spec-Ops that are really good at those fields, let's face it: linkable ODD Feuerbach is attractive mostly because it costs way less than such thing would normally cost, and is linkable with specifically with the cheapest stuff there is, making bonuses not really a tradeoff. Or linked Jammers - which weren't even designed for links in the first place.

    To me it looks more like powergamer's first choices as opposed to something cool because it's faction-themed.
     
  15. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    You're right. I did not even think of the Link-Capabilities with the ODD-Feuerbach-Spec-Op.
    Then I'd like to add another Suggestion: Make all SpecOps unlinkable!. They are SpecOps after all.
     
  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    well, the yj one can holo and give some surprise or tricks with minelayer, or bring the cc monster (monofilament+exp+dual wield+MA, in ha linked holo, and there are still points avaiable there). Also, some different 1p equipment/weapon to finish the build. They are almost as boring as nomad, but I think it has a little more fun options. Yes, they have the absurd cube and that has to be fixed, but that is another kind of problem.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Vanilla Nomads is definitely more successful than Vanilla PanO. What did the top 10 at IP look like again?
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    This is definitely a grass is greener situation.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's all hypothetical, however.
     
  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    maybe vainilla nomad is, but is not as successfull as some of the pano sectorials, and overal, picking all pano is more succesfull than picking all nomad. If we are gonna pick only a part, then we have a biased result.

    having access to a few better options while not being straight better, I'm not sure is that situation... for some people is hard to admit that nomads have something that is not the best, should be harder to admit that nomads have something on the worst possition. The YJ one can make any of the nomad's interesting options (but metachemistry, which at 5 points is better to pick the option you want directly: is cheaper and is not random, if it was cheap at least...), and some extra options the nomad doesn't have. They YJ main problen compared to the nomad (and everything else) is that absurd cube, that should be addressed too, but as the nomad, is in bad position