1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Nobody expects the Imperial Service [ ISS Tactica ]

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Yasashii Fuyu, Feb 22, 2018.

Tags:
  1. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    98
    The main strength of ISS is the possibility to play lists with 18+ orders, but still containing strong pieces like the Killer Hacker Ninja (good specialist) or Hsien/Su Jian (strong attacker). In my opinion ISS SHOULD spam, because they CAN!

    Its a rare trait, to have so much regular orders for such a low point investment. So why give it up?
     
    Azuset likes this.
  2. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    627
    What do you guys think of this list?

    [​IMG] Crane core 20 orders──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4[​IMG] CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT Lieutenant (Sensor, X Visor) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)[​IMG] CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 54)[​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)[​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)[​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4[​IMG] RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)[​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)[​IMG] CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)[​IMG] SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)[​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)[​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
    Azuset and BigBadFox like this.
  3. Hsien

    Hsien Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    21
    I use this one, it's very effective
     

    Attached Files:

    Azuset likes this.
  4. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    So, actually got to trying out ISS.
    Which has naturaly lead to some odd ideas being tossed about in Infinity Army due to curiosity and/or more likely boredom.

    So...

    Mind if I dump a Fireteam idea or two in here, to further some discussions?

    [​IMG] The "standard" defensive
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)

    2.5 SWC | 88 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Just a variantion of what other sectorials would call a "backfield/defensive" LI core team, with an ISS flavored twist to it.
    Xi and the FO bring linked WIP 14 Flash Pulses. Xi also brings our favorite little gluebots for further defenses, while the linked sniper doing what defensive linked snipers do. Hacker is useful for dispensing buffs to either your REMs or sprinkling Fairy Dust about, and the Kuang Shi control device does permit Kuang Shi access in the same combat group, and does bring some support potential like the Hacker, except in the form of a linked Smoke LGL this time.

    Might be a poor idea given our VAST variety of Core link options, but... I'd be willing to give this team a shot.

    [​IMG] Celestial Guards can kill people too
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    2 SWC | 82 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    And on the opposite side of the spectrum, an agression focused Celestial Guard team, again similar to the standard agressive LI links in other factions, just with ISS flavoring mixed in.
    This idea mostly came to me due to my desire to find a use for a tiny, unique detail of the CGs: the Spitfire in place of the more commonly found HMG.
    General idea with this link is using the Spitfire CG as the main attack member ( A Burst 5 BS14 Spitfire, even on a fragile unit, can still work, at least IMO. ), while using the LGL one as an altenative attack tool ( Speculating on 11s when in good range can help get rid of pesky REMs blocking your way. ). The two FOs are to corner guard for the team, and the ever useful Xi brings his ever useful MadTraps and Number 2 skill along ( Although the extra FO and LFT doesn't hurt. ).

    Obviously not as optimal as having a Spitfire Crane in it, but... the Spitfire CG costs 36 points and 1 SWC less than the Crane, so you might be able to put the saved budget to good use?

    Again, just some ideas I had while pondering the teams available to the ISS.

    Might pop back in later to drop some more ideas.
     
    Joametz likes this.
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,454
    Likes Received:
    8,003
    I've never managed to make good use of the Celestial Spitfire (they're this awkward spot where the weapon doesn't out-range any threats while the body carrying the gun doesn't out-perform any threats either, so they usually roll high-burst with inferior BS difference and no room for failing an ARO), but the Sniper passes as the low-cost high-threat ARO piece that Line Infantry snipers usually become. I'd favour more Kuang Shi Control Devices over the Spitfire, personally, since the Control Devices synergize well with Rui Shi, Hsien, or just plain positional movement and it's not seldom I use the Hacker as the backup body (since you tend to not want to activate a whole link team just to put Marksmanship on a Rui Shi).
     
    Joametz and Maksimas like this.
  6. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Yeah, the Spitfire does seem like a dubious option, but there's just this small itch of wanting to make it work.
    The fact the new CG resculpt looks pretty cool doesn't help the fact either.

    Also, a Zhanying+Wu Ming link idea or two I had ideas for.

    [​IMG] The Wall
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Missile Launcher, Nanopulser, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)

    4 SWC | 153 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    A more passive link here.
    The idea I had for this would be using the large amount of long-range firepower in this link to basically tank/blunt through the first game round, going on a more reserved offensive in the later rounds, maybe grab an objective or two with the FO.

    Might be a bit too passive for an HI link, though?

    [​IMG] Lockdown Smackdown? ( I'm bad at naming things. )
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    2 SWC | 149 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This is a link I think would work pretty nicely in missions where you need to control some zones and/or the midfield. Lotsa close range passive defenses ( Toss some mines down along the way, got some MadTraps, even got some shotguns and DTWs. And a Sensor, in case you need to discover some Camo markers. ).

    Perhaps not that great at caving the enemy in, but for missions where it's more so important to just claim dominance over the midfield, it could work maybe?

    P.S.: Replacing either the Chain Rifle or HRL profiles with the LGL profile seems like a decent idea too.
     
  7. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Gonna drop another one in here.

    [​IMG] The generic one
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Fireteam: Duo) Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    3 SWC | 168 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Just a general offensive application team.
    HMG for general HMG business. Hacker and TinBot for practical Hacker immunity. MULTI-Rifle+LGL for occasions when exposing the HMG might be a bit too risky, or when you need to disassemble opposing links. SMG/Chain Rifle just as a cheap profile to fill the link out, but the DTW can be useful.

    Just a standard "Go in and stomp the enemy into submission" link, nothing really special.
     
  8. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    246
    I love the idea of fielding defensive Core LI links and using their orders to fuel Rambo pieces. In ISS, using a defensive CG link with madtraps and an MSR + smoke LGL + Kuang Shis is a great way to enable a Su Jian with Spitfire.

    On the other side of the spectrum you have the Wu Ming Pain Train, an absolute beast of an offensive Link (IMHO). I wouldn’t leave home without the HMG and Multi + LGL profiles though. Burst is king and that puts the HMG above the HRL in my book, whereas the LGL throwing speculative grenades over walls on 13s is an awesome way to break opposing defensive LI Fireteams. And you can always bring the madtraps Zhanying to avoid some obnoxious flanking on the reactive turn.
     
  9. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Yeah, I can't fully understand the reason NOT to take an HMG Wu Ming in an offensive Wu Ming link.
    With a full link, that's like having a BS16 Burst 5 HMG on a 4 ARM 2 Wound platform.
    Granted, maybe not the best option for a more passively inclined link.

    And yeah, I just find defensive links that actually partake in the fight, at least passively, to be quite appealing.
    I never got the idea behind people taking units PURELY to sit them in a dark corner and generate an order every round. At least have them guard a corner instead of being one with a corner, y'know? At least then they might do something, doing so has saved me more than one match so far.
    Kinda why I can't quite understand Oznat+4xGaki or KSCD CG+4xChainRifle Kuang Shi links... at least give one of the Kuang Shis a BSG ( I'd personally take two, so I could have a Chan+BSG pair on one flank and another pair on the other, CG in between them as the leader. ) or make some of the Gakis into Pretas to guard some corners, y'know?
     
  10. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Huh, I just realized...
    According to the Infinity Wiki ( http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams#Fireteam_Units_4 ), Zhanyings can form Haris links of just Zhanyings.
    Wonder if there's some interesting teams to be made... will mess about in Army with that in mind now.

    P.S.: Just noticed there isn't a section for Zhanying Haris teams in this guide. Just a notice.
     
    Azuset likes this.
  11. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    246
    I do take the KSCD + 4 KS w/chains Link some times, just to avoid having the kids running around and being able to throw smoke reliably. In those cases I’m usually playing a couple of MSV2 units, either Hsien Haris or a couple of Rui Shis. But I do get your point and it’s a valid one for sure.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,454
    Likes Received:
    8,003
    That's likely because Zhanying are seen more as toolboxes for more competent and less bloaty profiles.
     
  13. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Using a link to fuel reliable Spec Fire Smoke sources is perfectly reasonable in my bruised book.
    I suppose I take greater issue with people positioning such links in small, huddled clumps rather than the idea of a handful of units being there for the purpose of just being there to sit about all game...
    Plus they end up looking a bit too juicy to bombard with a Wu Ming LGL, or better yet, a linked Wu Ming LGL.

    That's a fair point, but I still feel a need to at least attempt to see if there is any merit to a full Zhanying Haris.

    Something like a more defense oriented link like this, maybe?

    [​IMG] Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Missile Launcher, Nanopulser, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Forward Observer) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)

    2 SWC | 80 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I like Zhanyings a lot, so I just feel compelled to try thinking of some niche for a Zhanying Haris.
     
  14. Apatheism

    Apatheism New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    The online army builder isn't showing Wu Ming as having a regular core. Is this a inconsistency or did I miss a change?
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,454
    Likes Received:
    8,003
    It's inconsistent with the rules. Best report it as a bug.
     
  16. Hsien

    Hsien Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    21
    So, we'll have some tournament, and i need some fresh look on my lists.

    Missions:
    Frostbyte
    Unmasking
    Higly Classified
    Biotechwore
    Supremacy

    My first list

    Imperial Service
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1 10 / 4
    CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 54)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    GROUP 24
    CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    GARUDA Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    With this list i've no problem on Unmasking, Higly Classified and Supremacy. Pretty good map control, 4 specs and 4 attack units. My Lt is very common, and it may be my problem with IMM and spec.fires - but i hope it'll be ok with terrain. During Kurage this list wins 10 time of 11.
    But i don't think it will be good with Frostbyte, and absolutle failure with Biotechwore.

    For Biotech i'm thinking about wu ming or maybe bao. Do you have some exp. with iss on Biotech?
     
  17. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    292
    That looks like a really good list. For frostbyte and biotechvore you want to go heavy infantry based, which probably means a wu ming link.

    Biotechvore you have to move forward very aggressively to get things out of the biotechvore zone without losing them. Sun Tze is also good for avoiding your enemy locking you down with AROs, giving you an option to place a heavy rocket launcher or something in a nasty position to slow them down, and granting you an extra order in one group to move guys out. He can tank a BTS hit with no problem, so you can almost leave him in your DZ all game without worrying.
     
  18. HerrScar

    HerrScar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    13
    Hi guys,
    I am a generic player, I like imperial service but I have problems when surviving with links, I tend to play too aggressive and I expose them too much.
    This is the list that I am going to play this afternoon, an aggressive Sun Tze, and the chain of command to not be in the loss of a lieutenant, the Haris Zhaying that I have never tried, I will be very aggressive, I hope to have half table control with the ninja and the kanren,
    I think the list may be fine, and the total reaction will serve to cover and annoy as much as possible.
    This is my list:
    [​IMG] Servicio Imperial
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GRUPO 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] AGENTE IMPERIAL FAISÁN (Cadena de Mando) Escopeta de Abordaje, Granadas Aturdidoras / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] Yaókòng HÙSÒNG Ametralladora / Pulso Eléctrico. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] Tacbot DAKINI Sanitario (MediKit) Fusil Combi / Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Disp. Hacker Asesino) Arco Táctico / Pistola, Arma CC DA, Cuchillo. (0 | 29)

    GRUPO 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] GUARDIA CELESTIAL (Disp. Control de Kuang Shi) Fusil Combi + Lanzagranadas Lig. Humo / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Observ. de Artillería) Fusil Combi Breaker / Pistola, Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Ametralladora / Pistola, Pulso Eléctrico. (1 | 30)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Fusil Combi Breaker, Granadas Nimbus / Pistola, Pulso Eléctrico. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] SUN TZE Teniente (Mando Avanzado) F. de Francotirador MULTI, Nanopulser, Pulso Flash / Pistola, Cuchillo. (1.5 | 61)
    [​IMG] KǍNRÈN (Observ. de Artillería) Escopeta de Abordaje, Chain-colt / Pistola, Arma CC Monofilo, Cuchillo. (0 | 26)

    4.5 CAP | 300 Puntos

    Abrir en Infinity Army
     
  19. Hsien

    Hsien Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    21
    Hi, if you like aggressive, look at Su-Jian or Garuda. Sun tze with sniper isn't good imho. Try wu ming link - very strong aggressive link.
     
  20. armazingerz

    armazingerz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    196
    Hi guys, how would you deal with a MO death star, De Fersen included? I can only think about a Wu Ming Core, but that would require to win the initiative roll, AROing them looks not an option facing B5 CD17

    ps. I'm talking about limited insertion, btw