1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Ninjas as cc specialists

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Khalipo, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    446
    B1 means actual CC attacks are just as effective in ARO as they are in the active turn, and are annoyingly skewed by bad rolls. Outside of an initial surprise attack, I'll just let the enemy waste their orders trying to deal with it and try to focus back on my main offensive pieces.
     
  2. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    csjarrat likes this.
  3. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    167
    Nope, not trolling. I'm a new player. I don't even know what this whole "change facing" abuse is. Sure, I know how to face-check as you would put it. I asked the question because I know this forum is full of smart and cleaver people who have a lot of insight to share about in game tactics.
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    10,636
    As long as they don’t have anyone with Sensor, or their own CC specialists around.
     
  5. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Getting into CC for a ninja should be relatively easy. They start in TO camo state and halfway or more up the board. You can either walk them forward doing your best to stay out of LOS (even if they try to discover you it will be difficult, and you can always re-camo if you go cover to cover) or just chill by an objective and let the enemy come to you.
     
    Awash in Blood likes this.
  6. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    446
    Naturally. But that's where individual, contextual player input becomes involved. Of course you want to keep your Ninja away from enemy troopers that can deal with it. But on the other hand, it could potentially work in your favour. Depending on who you lock up and where you lock them up, you could potentially use it as an opportunity to waste enemy orders and draw out those sensors or CC specialists that might threaten your own models into a vulnerable position.

    But that goes right back to Infinity simply being a highly context sensitive game with a lot of potential for variation. You can't write a hard, by-the-numbers guide for anything in this game. A trooper's value comes from their ability to be utilized in and viably react to a large variety of situations. And in that, Ninjas are awesome.
     
    Sedral, ijw and Azuset like this.
  7. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Remember to always ask for the stats of whatever you are attacking too. If I had a nickel for every time my Spetsnaz have pummeled ninjas to a pulp I'd have... about 15 cents
     
    Section9 and WarHound like this.
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    9,332
    Agreed.

    A Ninja's CC ability is great for dealing with most other midfielders, though. Even if you roll a 1 on your attack, the effective CC26 score adds +6 to that. Your opponent helpless victim is at -9 to their CC score if it's your Surprise Attack. Anyone under CC16 can't beat you unless they crit, and chances are you also critted. And a lot of the typical midfielders (Spektrs, Crocs, etc) do not have much CC at all.



    Exactly. (Though if it's the game I'm remembering, you got more points for a surprise face-to-face kill of the guards).
     
    Awash in Blood likes this.
  9. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    126
    Nah man, I've seen you post in other conversations, and while you may be a new player you've been quite outspoken. You seem o enjoy making contrary posts and gamey arguments, so when you say "How do you get them in CC though?" it comes across as more of a narrative on your perceived state of the game, or an attempt at contrary humour.


    Meh, maybe I associate you with similarities to Hecaton too much, but I digress.

    Sorry to others for temporarily derailing the thread. Normal service continues.

    The other advice given in this thread (especially the bit about knowing your target before you attack it!) is spot-on. ^_^
     
  10. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    816
    Further derailing...
    I'd love to try that with the chimera - bind 4 targets in CC...

    And CC is not so much different from BS Attacks:
    You do it when the odds favour you.

    If you use them early,
    you will loose them.

    But maybe you can steal more orders or kill important troopers
    (in future rounds as well) than this 'cheap order'
    (that does not generate any as long as it is hidden) is worth...

    And if you survive to kill some troopers/orders,
    you can (with combo rifles) go into suppressive fire and be a mean roadblock at -12 in cover.
    (Yeah, no CC, but 'what about the reactive turn after CC?')
     
    #30 daszul, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    3,944
    Yeah, I'm sorry for putting it that way. I didn't even intend to be negative I just thought that it would be clear what I was talking about.

    But the point is, Ninjas shouldn't have a hard time getting into CC.
     
  12. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    280
    Over the last few years I've killed dozens of things in CC with the ninja, including TAGs. Bear in mind that you can also set up a kill if you get something else into combat with it first, for the burst bonus. With MA3 it is going to crit on a 14+. Two dice really makes that brutal.

    I suspect the OP might be playing vanilla YJ. It gets even easier with ISS smoke grenade launchers in link team. In addition to ZOC tactics, I also like walking the ninja into the back arc of the enemy model before spending a new order to move safely into b2b. If they attempt discover, you can just fire the bow for free, or keep moving.

    For an infiltrating TO model, CC is more important than having a combi rifle imo. It's a way of dealing with big targets without spending SWC, also.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    9,332
    I agree, but it is very much a matter of player skill.
     
  14. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    915
    And terrain density.
    I find that's the biggest hindrance to CC specialists going. If there ain't enough "stuff" they'll often never get relevant
     
  15. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    3,944
    Both valid points.

    But the Ninja at least has tools.
     
  16. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    915
    Oh yeah, he's an auto take in ikari and JSA.
    Situational for CC but sometimes worth it depending on the game situation and the terrain layout
     
  17. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    352
    ehhh
    Clipsos/Crocman kills a TR bot without a chance for it to respond with return fire in 2 orders (get in 16" and cover -> shoot).
    Ninja waits for an opposing Swiss Guard to be an idiot and stay in the open way down the field.
    Only thing better than a rifle on a TO skirmisher is a direct template or a boarding shotgun.
     
    Hecaton and Sedral like this.
  18. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    241
    I find the Ninja is great due to her flexibility. Taking the KHD profile gives you:

    - a Specialist that can push buttons reliably
    - a CC midfielder that can engage MA-lacking units
    - an infiltrator that might (always taking into account terrain density and such) sneak her way up to the enemy DZ and put down the weakest link in a defensive Fireteam
    - a HD Redrum user

    If thay are an option, I always take'em.
     
    csjarrat likes this.
  19. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    50
    There’s another interesting use for the Ninja KHD when fighting against other hackers near objectives, bear in mind this would require the ninja to be within 4” of movement of the enemy hacker and during your active turn.

    Basically what you do if this opportunity arises is
    1. Move into CC with the Hacker
    2. Wait for ARO
    2a. If he answers with a Dodge or reset you declare Hacking attack or CC attack to get a normal roll against it.
    2B. If the guy shoots back you should be using CC attack along with TO, Surprise attack and Possibly MA3 to get a -15 mod starting out, remember that the -12 or +12 is the maximum possible modifier after all mods have been calculated.

    This should net you efficient normal rolls against enemy hackers when fighting for objectives, specially useful if your opponent really likes Infiltrating Hackers beside Objectives.

    Remember also, that if you go Bare Handed and get the enemy hacker into unconscious, you could let the ninja enjoy the extra protection of being engaged with an enemy, specially against their primary weakness: Direct Template Weapons.
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,711
    Likes Received:
    4,581
    @Gero If you use hack and your opponent uses CC attack it will be FtF. And if you "wait for ARO" you aren't using Stealth, in which case they can hack you.