Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Sep 29, 2018.
I don't remember how many points he was before, but im pretty sure his cost now reflects it
I think he needed the help a bit. Atalanta's gotten pretty popular for Steel Phalanx, and Teucer doesn't have any Smoke in Acon to help him out, so hopefully Climbing Plus and the new MMLX rules give him enough of a boost.
Yes, but suddenly he became really nasty sniper when it comes to popping TAGs open (especially in combo with smoke).
Oh and K1 makes more sense on him.
* Heavy Breathing *
3D fun oh joy. Gotta go, have to build some Dart &Teucer Lists...
Agreed, Im really liking the punch this offers if you are limited in your other anti-tank.
and I get what you mean about the ASA version, I think Id in general feel more comfortable with it myself. that being said both builds and the philosophy behind them are solid and make good use of the ORC
yes they are, I did for years, was part of the list that took me to my first top table.
The worst you can say about the ORC is that it was boring. not that its not brutally efficient as far as gun platforms go.
As to the Zuying, go play it for a bit, but it lacks in all the areas you want a HI to excel.
Its lower BS Lower ARM and Lower Ph. skills that are important for it to 1) do its job, 2) survive at its job, 3) prevent it getting alpha struck by attacks like speculative fire/flanking from opponents that dont want to fight its guns dirrectly
Its not brutally efficient as far as gun platforms go
OMG!!! I was able to!!! Hurray!!!!!
(Sorry, bad night at home, ignore it)
Name a single other HMG gun platform that hits on BS14/15 and is cheap enough at 44 pts to fit 2 of in a list.
I mean you could list hospitallers, but outside of MO id rather use the AVA 1 on the Doctor thanks.
And then once youve done that, add it to a link...
Are you not Feuerbach-curious?
Oh i am.
Probably running it tonight.
And thats another point in the ORCs favour in that it now has access to the Fuerbach. And while its not as good in reactive as a ML HI it is a lot better in active
Better than a HMG in reactive too - and no negatives from 32-48 either, for those occasions when a sniper or ML pops up.
Pretty sad the Feuerbach cant be LT tho, and its limited to just the HMG (for those times when you have no other option)
I dont think id want it to be the Lt, even the HMG I rarely if ever run as the Lt due to the fact I want it up and doing work and while its tougher than 1W models its still possible to get killed if its being used in active.
Feueueurbach and HMG seem pretty similar in stats of winning an active F2F once they get the link bonuses behind them, the HMG is a little better against low ARM/total Reaction but the FB shines against high armour and TAGs. The FB is much better in ARO though.
I feel the HMG is better vs defensive links, units like the Kamau or a HI ML where the B3 is faced with B2 AROs.
But against targets outside of that situation the Fuerbach really ensures that what you hit stays down, and has the ARO capacity the HMG lacks outside of SF
You are telling me that you are willing to use 88 points and 4 SWC in Vainilla for 2 HMG Orc..... and call it good....
Dude, our meta has to be drastically different, like 2 different games
I get of defending using 2 Nisses in the same list, hell i do a that a lot of times.... but 2 Orc ???!!! serial??!!
I dont think even CB thinks that useful
lets leave it here, i concede you the title of Infinity master hipster that used Orc´s before they were cool, a man ahead of his time capable of making the Bolt and old Teuton shine !! all hail !!!
For real, if you think that +1BS and ARM are more useful that 6 points .5 swc and an extra free order.... even on a solo..... then our perception and experiences are too different and we wont agree, lets just drop it
Stop calling a unit trash, start listening to the how and leverage the benefits the unit has. Maybe then we could "leave it there."
Furthermore this started that "ORCs are trash" I noticed that after pointing out the links its now "Solo ORCs are trash" so hopefully at least something was learnt. But heres the thing MPOGA, Tools in infinity is what matters, and the right tool for the right job matters far more than if that tool pays a few points more or less than you think it should.
And in ASA and VIRD the ORCs have no competition for what that role is.
So yeah, its not the ORCs
As to the 2 ORC list, it was so successful and the basis of a HI focused list that I wrote a primer on it.
Joan +2 BS14 HMGs with 2W, yeah its a thing
Actually, spending 4 SWC on 2 HMG in a link with HI is hardly anything new. Its not common but far from unheard of. And yeah, if this forum has taught me anything, its that people really do have VASTLY different metas. Some places spam KHD, others apparently do not. Some are dominated by order spam lists and others by elite 10 man teams.
And I am the real Infinity Master hipster here since I've been with the game since the very first miniatures were sold. And I can assure you, while never optimal, using Orcs has never stopped anyone from winning games. Orcs are the definition of average but thats not the same as being sub par.
There is no link in vainilla
Against a linked Kamau MSR the FB is about 40% to wound against 36% to be wounded, the HMG is ~47% to ~27% so the HMG definitely comes ahead there, but I'd say that's quite an extreme example (all calculations done at 16-32" with cover).
Riot GRRL ML link is 57% to 28% for the FB, to 57% to 19% for the HMG, obviously the extra burst of the HMG is increasing the crit chance and therefore survivability, but that's a lot closer than I was expecting against one of the most feared ARO Fireteams.
Comparing them to a Gao-Rael sniper in a Triad, or a Fusilier ML/MSR and they get closer to each other. Against a TAG and the FB becomes the obvious best choice, against a heavy HI like the Kriza HMG you're looking at 70% to 10% FB, or 62% to 6% for the HMG.
These numbers are all a lot better for the FB than my gut feeling said they were going to be, especially when you consider the FB has a better 32"+ modifier and EXP ammo for AROs.
Ah I see, 2 HMG Orcs in Vanilla. People have done that before and won games. People were doing mass armor lists before fireteams existed. We even have a sticked topic about how to use lists with 5 HI in just generic Pano which means no fireteams.
Thats not common because people have a preconception that it can't work. But it sure can work. The main reason you take 2 HMG Orcs over say a Swiss Guard is because it saves you points and the Orcs are not expected to kill everything, which is what a Swiss w/ HMG is basically meant to do. The Orc HMG are there just to let you break out of your DZ. You can do a lot of killing with just multi-rifles if you can get into range.