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New wave of Varuna rumors (OMG)

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Please look back to the first page in this thread. Look at the 2nd reply. I was here before literally anyone besides the OP.

    Please explain in what way any of your criticisms were constructive. It boiled down to "I don't want a new unit and I hate bikes." If you don't like a unit, don't play it?

    It seems more like there are a couple very loud voices who don't like getting nice things. As for Knights and Fusiliers, they're the most recognizable units in the entire faction -- you don't see Haaq players complaining that Ghulams are in every sectorial, do you?
     
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  2. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    This hasn't been at all part of my complaints/commentary surrounding this.

    It is and will continue to be that I do not feel Varuna was the proper setting to introduce a motorcycle knight unit. We have the Military Orders and potentially Svalarheima for that(where, correct me if I'm wrong it's Hospitallers present?).

    If Varuna had seen a motorcycle unit with a counterterrorism bend, I might not have been so frustrated today.
    If Varuna had seen a fluff introduction with the mention of Hospitallers, I might not have been so frustrated today.
    But the two items together coupled with the removal of Shock Army from sale(which in my experience/opinion will effectively constitute from the game) and the "reinvention" of a Knight unit from the Shock Army has me riled up over something where we get told time and time again from people like yourself that the "background matters"...then we get stuff like this dropped on us with no commentary.

    I'd just like to point out that for those not reading the article, it's not "just" the response time. These firebikes tend to be, from the description being speedread, operating primarily in an emergency medical services role rather than "actually" as firefighters. There's also a few mentions centering on the usage for wildfire crews which is a whole other kettle of fish entirely.

    Which again goes to my point of "if it hadn't been a Knight, much less a Montesa I might not be so frustrated today". Yesyesyes, we don't know everything but that seems to be the order of the day where as far as I know we still haven't seen an official statement as to the retirement of Shock Army.
     
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  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    shitty CC needs to be looked at in scale. CC20 with assault (montessa) isn't the worst thing in the world. its garbage compared to JSA, but compared to the rest of PanO – thats some of the best we have.

    As far as the rest of limitations, they may be well rounded but not have a lot of wiggle room. If crocmen are their only infiltrator, that kind of puts them in a pigeon hole as far as mid-board specialists go. we might get a lot but certainly pay for it and in turn not be able to fit it all in one list.
     
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  4. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    About the only thing you added of any contributing value is mentioning that it was featured in GTM.
    Neither of those have anything to do with your comment of "PanO is famous for whining" though, now do they? You chose to focus in on my specific comments while making a sweeping statement about the faction's playerbase as a whole.

    If you want to say that I'm specifically whining here--fine. Yeah, I've been a bit of a little bitch today about this specific topic. I realize that. This is something that has frustrated me and was why I was trying to drop the topic--hence my asking another poster if they'd like to continue the discussion privately.
     
  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    If I feel the Montessas don't adequately fit the theme of Varuna, I'll make them fit by using their rules and modeling them as a rapid reaction combat REM... The PanO equivalent of the Su Jian, or whatever, depicted and painted in colors that fit with Varuna. Should be a fun project. But I'll wait until I see the models and read the lore first.
     
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  6. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    And that's cool and all for you...but for a game that is supposedly so heavily invested in its own lore, why should you have to do it?

    Ugh. This is just...I don't know if I can adequately explain why it all bothers me. I'm going to go work on some commission projects instead.
     
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  7. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    I've always been more interested in using tabletop gaming as an outlet for my own creativity. If I wanted to be bound 100% to someone else's creative idea, I'd console or PC game. One reason I enjoy tabletop is because I can take someone's loose framework or general idea and make it my own. I'm not a big MO guy, and I think your point about the oddity of knight bikers in Varuna has merit. At the same time, I acknowledge that MO has never fully felt integrated into the rest of the PanO military hierarchy, so maybe this is one step to address that and help knights feel more integrated. Not my cup of tea, but I get it.


    So rather than waiting around to see what happens, I can handle the issue myself. Expecting anyone to read my mind isn't realistic.
     
    #127 barakiel, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  8. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Same here. Hobby first, story second, gameplay third. Lore is as nearly important to me as the hobby though since, in my mind, storied backgrounds for my forces go hand in hand.
     
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  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I do not get it too, they are Montesas, they just happen to also be in Varuna too.
     
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  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Providing confirmation of a rumor is not valuable?
     
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  11. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Considering they are riding bikes, it makes better sense for a bike riding Knight to be a Sepulcher Knight instead. Still I'm looking forward to what VIRD/Varuna brings to PanO come my birthday in November. It should be a nice present when all is said and done.
     
  12. Phillimon

    Phillimon Kazak Diplomatic Operative

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    I feel like some are looking at the bikes from a IRL perspective. Instead of the Rule of Cool, manga/anime aesthetic CB follows.

    I don't like Spess Mar... I mean Knights. So I don't like that there is going to be a knight biker. However Space Knights on bikes are cool (looks at Gee Dubs) so I can see why CB did it.

    I do agree with @kanluwen on the fluff. A space knight biker does not seem to fit with Varunas theme, especially not the montessas. However I'm willing to wait and see what the fluff on it is.
     
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  13. mothman

    mothman Well-Known Member

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    what if this is start of a general knight buff, all orders get a bike as a wargear option

    also due to news of the bikes im sad thread is not called Varooooom-ers
     
  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    that would make them.... umm.... good? and we can't have that
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    On the other hand Montesa are Mech. Deployment guys so that actually do fit VIRD theme kor rapid response).

    Actually bikes themselfs are also often used as a "rolling patrol" who usually are first to be present on the "crime scene".

    Knights on bikes seems edgy at first (as Im not sure about them) but the more I think the more sense they make.

    For sure Im waiting very curious how CB will execute the idea.
     
  16. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I mean, if they play the role of a detective or some type of authority figure in an ant-terrorism organization it would make sense that they would need to be somewhere very quickly.
     
  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    ?
    We're kinda already done talking if you insist CC 20 with a Shock CCW and Assault, without Frenzy at that, is anything else than bloat.

    I don't quite understand how mixed LI/HI Links on top of TAGs, AD, TO Infiltrators and Bikes impose any sort of limitation you'd expect to see in a Sectiorial. We don't really have CoC or proper Lt Skills anyway (unless you want to run a Joan list), so having NCO to use your Fusilier's Lt Order is already more than every other PanO Sectorial gets.
    Real CC only exists in MO, even Vanilla has a lot of issues actually getting something close enough to use CC even if you can have it in theory.

    On top of that a Kamau Sniper with Wildcard in a Fusilier Link would be insanity. If there was ever a bitchslap for another Faction, this would be it. Brawlers, Govads, Grenzers, Djanbazans, Baos, heck even the Gao Rael feels inferior to a Kamau MSR getting full core bonus from a bunch of friggin Fusiliers.
    At this point we're only talking about the existing troops that will be in Varuna. Remotes, Kamau, Orcs, TAGs, Crocs, Warcor, Techbee with the Link Options I expect is already a damn good sectorial.
    If Helots, Echo Bravo, Zulu Cobra, Bikergang Montesa or the Orc Character girl are improvements over any of these choices, we're looking at some serious threat potential here.
    A 74 point LI Link that throws 2 dice on 19s against Warbands and outshoots an Active Turn Intruder in ARO. With as many spares to reform as you want to afford. Orc HMGs to use that same Link to hose ARO pieces with bullets at BS17 B5. Firepower that was previously reserved to a full HI Core Link in MO, mostly because the Knights really, really needed the firepower to get across the board.

    Then you have that amazing cheap defensive Link and put a TAG + X Duo or affordable Orc/Kamau Haris in front to do the heavy lifting, all that secured by the usual wall of remotes and cheap irregular Flashpulse troop AROs to watch the lanes not covered by the Kamau Sniper(s). If you want you can take a Combat Croc (Minelayer or BSG) to add another line of defense and problem for your opponent to deal with.
    With Fusiliers, Kamau, Echo Bravos, Zulu Cobras and again Crocs you also aren't exactly short on unhackable options.
    Want a solo gunner? Kamau HMGs are dirt cheap, 1 SWC and wreck face solo by most Faction's standards.

    As much as I'm looking forward to playing with them, I'm a little concerned about Varuna being far ahead of the powercurve compared to PanO's other armies.
     
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well if you are patrolling or in general "at area" your ETA is much better than "waiting in HQ/Barracks" so if you fight against Helots/YuJing terrorist attacks you might really want to be "in field" not only to increase response time or monitor citizens but also not to give big fat juicy target to blow up.
     
  19. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Well, no. Holy Sepulchre order is known for its Armored Cavalry (TAGs as they are full of Seraphs), not for its mecanised infantry. Mechanised infantry is the thing of the Order of Montesa. In Acon, they might use some light armored jeeps like the Panhard General Defense/Hummer or maybe something heavier if there is a need to carry Peacemakers and Auxbots with them. So, seeing them on bikes don't hurt me. It's weird as I can't stop having the image of a green armored knight in a blue and black sectorial but except from that, I have no problem to see a fast unit in an immediate response division.

    Montesa tend to be the holegap filler of the army they are trying to integrate. They did it for ASA to be accepted. They do it again for Varuna. Like in ASA and NCA, the MO units tend to be part of a sectorial while acting in an unorthodox way compared to the rest. And that's exactly fulfilling the lore. They are part of the army but tend to act on their own way. And this is this way of being PanO but not totally that I like so much in MO knights. They are the problem solvers when the regular stuff is in a dead-end. Just like in the lore of the Montesa order.
     
    #139 Ayadan, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  20. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    I thought about it and Varuna may have smoke. So far all bikes I know come with inbuilt smoke grenade launcher.
     
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