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New wave of Varuna rumors (OMG)

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by barakiel, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the fluff will be, visually it won't look great together. And I don't know how fluff can explain bikes on waterworld. They can be hover, but Pano doesn't have such technology.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    As terrorists seem to like to act in crowded areas like cities, having a unit that can move fast to intervene can be a problem solver.
     
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  3. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about a water planet with resorts as a primary source of income/selling point and their counterterrorism force as the basis for bringing a Knight on a motorcycle into the game.

    There is no rational scenario that makes this work. There's only hamfistedness--and that's even accounting for Montesa "expanding their influence"(whatever that is supposed to mean--seems to me one of the Military Orders is getting uppity and needs a good slapdown from the Hexahedron, good ol' purge like those Templars got) in any weirdly specific way that ends up with them somehow becoming part of Varuna.

    You can claim that people are "fixating on why something couldn't work" but the reality of the situation is that for many people that is the crux of the issue. They've likely tried to imagine how it "could" work, but no matter what they might keep coming back to "why does it need to be a knight on a motorcycle in a Sectorial that so far has been free of knights of any type?".
     
  4. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    So can having units specializing in precise application of force. So can having units specializing in rapid deployment and interdiction via mechanized or aerial deployment methods.

    A motorcycle just lets one guy get to a point quick. Even a guy in heavy armor isn't going to be able to do much.
     
  5. cogites

    cogites Well-Known Member

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    I guess if I count as one of these people, I should probably respond.

    So, I don't play Acon and probably won't play Varuna. If there's actually going to be an entirely new unit comprised of Montesa Knights on bikes, I think that's rad. It's a little weird considering that Montesa Knights are supposed to train on Acontecimento, a jungle world where bikes would be terrible, but I can imagine they have another monastery on Varuna or something. Cool. What I'm worried about is the idea that the current profile is going to be replaced. I know enough about SAA to know that the Montesa currently performs a pretty important role in the sectorial, being really the only units of its kind in there, and it's generally a very well designed profile that people like. It's not bloated like the Father-Knight, it has a really useful set of abilities, it's one of the few sources of heavy infantry in the sectorial, etc. I feel like it is a bit of an insult to injury to Acontecimento players if they lose a perfectly fine profile over this, basically.

    I really, really don't like the idea of taking away one sectorial's nice things so that a new sectorial can have more cool stuff. Obviously Acon will be getting this biker knight (unfortunately not from Mars) too, but I know a lot of people who use Montesas as they currently are as mainstays for their lists, and I doubt they'll welcome this change. I especially find this worrying because it's being done to Montesas, a good unit with nice models, presumably because they'll be OOP soon, rather than being applied to Teutons who actually are in desperate need of an overhaul, and whose lore as furious crusaders itching to get into close combat totally fits being bikers. It feels like CB is using the excuse of something being OOP to redesign it for another faction that it wasn't initially intended for, possibly to its detriment in the original faction, instead of redesigning a profile that actually needs the attention.

    That said, if this is an entirely new profile? Great. If not, it sets a bad precedent, and is a waste of a perfectly good unit.
     
    injenegr, DFW Ike, Hiereth and 2 others like this.
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    To me it looks more like a case "I've thought there won't be any knights here, and now there are and I don't like it".

    We've had no reason to think there will or won't be MO presence in VIRD. It was a completely opened case. It's not even case of CB changing their fluff to justify something, but CB releasing new fluff. Some of us like it, some don't, some don't care. The world isn't coming to an end.

    @cogites: and this is a perfectly valid concern. Replacing MechDep Montesas with bikers will change how the sectorial plays a lot. But it might still be a good change, it all depends on how the unit will play out. We've learned about all this only today, we really need more info.
     
  7. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Well, during our speculations a lot of us were wondering which one of the knight orders would join. There was quite an agreement on the Santiago order due to their naval theme. We all assumed that ORCs wouldn't the only HI choice in Snake Eaters. Yeah, it could be a new Guard but a lot of us assumed we would get some MO units.

    Yes but how much time will you need to get your aerial transport ready with your team inside? And sometimes, mechanized and aerial transports aren't that easy to use. I wonder why a lot of police forces still have bikers units if it is so useless...
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    You've stated your point. Got it. Noone in this thread can help you with your perceived bike/non bike issues. Let's move on.

    Sounds like ORCs can join Fusies, and Kamau have wildcard... So ORCS and Kamau in Fusilier links sounds pretty good. With that much in the way of linkable options, I wonder if we're seeing the 3 complete Core options available: ORCS, Kamau, Fusiliers, and a combination of all three.

    I'm actually relieved to have Fusiliers confirmed. We all knew it... But hadn't heard much lately... So I'm pleased that they're definitely going to be in Varuna. I wonder what the AVA will be.
     
  9. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    And that's where the crux of the arguing seems to come from. Those who like it will seemingly do everything they can to demonize those who don't like it, while those who don't care will be on the sidelines and try telling everyone to chill out or just roll with it, and those who don't like it will have to keep repeating their argument as new challengers on the part of those who do like it come in and drudge it up.
     
    DFW Ike, Nemo No Name and Golem2God like this.
  10. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    In use, in the game, right now, they don’t have hover bikes, but the6 certainly have the tech level for it. Regardless, it’s simply an idea as to how they would work on a waterworld, no more.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  11. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Do you think we would get some Varuna exclusive profiles for Fusiliers?
     
  12. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Depending on if you have rotating teams with people that are kept "ready" and aerial transports are kept at a state of readiness...probably 5-10 minutes tops?
    Because the biker units are used for totally different roles...?

    There's not SWAT teams rolling around on motorcycles waiting for a call. It's primarily highway/traffic duty that gets put on motorcycles. Doesn't exactly strike me as rapid response for counterterrorism operations.
     
    Nemo No Name likes this.
  13. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    My concern is a brand new sculpt gets resculpted and 2 old sculpts just remain old
     
  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @kanluwen
    Noone in this thread can help you with your issue. The bikes are here. You dont like the idea, got it. Let's move on.
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I'm getting a strong Line Kazak/Frontovik/Veteran mix vibe here. This is one of the best fireteams in TAK, especially when it comes to cost/benefit ratio. ORCs might bring in some superior firepower. ORC Feuerbach for ARO/heavy stuff hunting duty, Kamau HMG as a general purpose active turn profile, Fusiliers providing specialists.

    The question is if Kamau and ORCs will be getting their own Core (I don't see why not) and who else will be able to join. I strongly suspect Clipper, in line with recent trends. I'd like to see Pathfinders in there as well. Bulleteers would be possibly too strong, even with Rudras being a precedent. Not to mention there's a lot of potential for some addon completely out of left field, pretty much like Sforza in OSS, or the Deva/CSU Duo.
     
    #95 Stiopa, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  16. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    He asked a question. I replied to it. I did what Stiopa suggested, refraining from being overtly angry or whatever.

    So should I just never reply to any topic about the bikes because you think I'm just harping on things?
     
  17. Riquende

    Riquende Well-Known Member

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    The problem here Kan is that you're arguing from the point of view of your own headcanon of how you feel things should be, and the deeper you go into it to find reasons and counterpoints the more people you lose as they aren't on the same page as you.

    I'm not particularly pro-bikes, despite posts contrary to yours on here and Dakka. I only learned about them this morning and haven't really settled on my position yet, but if I don't feel I want to include them then I can always just not buy them and include them in my lists. But somehow you seem to have taken massive personal umbrage at the news, as if it's some sort of targetted assault on the way you think things should be.

    And I see on this page you've written:

    You say 'many people' in a manner Trump would be proud of.

    Those that don't like the bikers don't have to keep repeating their argument as it isn't going to change anything, and maybe if they didn't then there wouldn't be any 'challengers' as, you know, the argument won't be happening.
     
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  18. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    And this is one of the biggest complaints that I continually will have with regards to CB. These kinds of links could and should be backdated anytime they happen into other Sectorials as well.

    To me, as well, it highlights the silliness of the limitations as to the number of links that exist. It highlights the need for Trio to start making it out there in place of Haris in some cases. Some units that are currently viewed in a less than stellar light(COUGH BOLTS COUGH) might end up shining as Trios.
     
    #98 kanluwen, Sep 29, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
    AdmiralJCJF and Stiopa like this.
  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Yeah, I like the duality of ORCs for raw stats, durability. Kamau for a more finesse oriented, less expensive alternative that's nevertheless only 1-Wound. Having that extra Wound on the ORC Fuerbach will be really nice for ARO duty, definitely a step up in durability and flexible range bands from the Fusilier missile while having that nice Burst 3 in the active turn.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well it makes sense to reuse MO units (especially if we have already enough of them struggling to make sense), more "bloat" akin which may happen in AD department is not really needed.

    Im really surprised that among all Orders it was Montesa who got reworked. Their Mech deployment and "armory loadouts" were making then a valid (if little bit niche in MO, ASA is different story) unit with own strengths and weaknesses.

    Personally Im not totally sold in idea of "Knights on bikes" but knowing that well knights were a "mounted unit" (for a long time) somewhat mechanical steed makes a bit of sense. Im really curious how it will be implemented.

    I really wonder if we will see Montesa lose Mech. Deployment or will they get a special 2ns battalion/regiment.

    I also wonder if it is even possible to have HI with bike and Mech Deployment.

    Alongside whole discussion, even a premise of 14" Assault is somewhat ridicilus... in a good way xD
     
    Stiopa likes this.