Since infinity is a skirmish game I would not put it past CB if they take the link team building model from uprising and introduce it to all factions. After all this is not 40k where huge armies clash and even there you can do that with some factions.
That is not the way it goes... Lhosts are just "artificial bodies", and you have them from "indistinguishable from humans" (widely used in the military to replace the body of their casualties) to "TOP of the line", like what Achilles uses. There is no background about the brains in a jar that control the Hollow Men, but if it were as you say they would not be brains, but cubes. You should look better. Of course they won't be 10 points per HI, but you can find from 20 something to 30 in the "cheap'n good"... The Riot Grrrls!!!! and the Wu Ming are among the cheapest, with the Zhuyong and (being open with the "HI" definition) the Deva Functionaries. Also, I lol'ed hard since you dismiss the Posthuman HI troops as "not cheap" (Mk3 & Mk4) since you mentioned them XD Yes, because there are so many Myrmidon doctors of which Machaon is an example, so many Heavy Weapons Myrmidons Phoenix is just the cool old dude, and so many "I wanna lost Achilles from sight" Myrmidon-turned-Thorakite Thrasimedes is nothing but a named one... And of course, they all have the same statline and cost-jump, because from 16 points chain rifle Myrmidon to 40 points Machaon is just the weapon and doctor skill! (Ah, no, the combi Myrmidon is 24-25... whops) XD Your mess seems to stem from the simple need to have at least one hero to make a link, from which you make a gross oversimplification. As an aside, Kusanagi is the named character that links with ANY nun of the Observancy (like the healers, so she can link with Moiras OR Custodier), Kisaragi was the named Aragoto from JSA that is now the Kuroshi Rider ;) Anyway, my point on the Greeks was not about "troops", but roles covered by non-cloned troops. Sure, Myrmidons are all the same CC+ODD machines, but Phoenix is the only long range linkable, Machaon is the only Myrmidon Doctor, Eudoros is the melee specialist, Ajax is the killing melee machine, the Officer is there for the BSG+Eclipse+CoC, etc... And none I mentioned share the whole statline (Machaon is WP15, Ajax is Berserker, Eudoros ir AM4, etc...). And they can link between themselves :p
The only mechanical reason to mix a link is to mix stats. Basically 1: to have a reduced stat troop to be cheaper and 2: to have an increased stat troop to be stronger. You don't need to have mixed links for another reason. Wildcats could have a Mimetism MSV2 Wildcat, a Chain Rifle Smoke Grenade Wildcat, and a Doctor Wildcat, a Crazy Koala Repeater Wildcat, then the benefits from a potential mixed link could be almost entirely built in. It's up to the designer.
27+ points is already too expensive to not be expendable, IMO. Although it depends on how one defines expendable, I guess - maybe I'm too stingy here. On Posthuman HIs - one model is cheap for HI, sure, but since you have to take 2-3 of them, and then only one of them can act at any given moment - again, you're paying upwards of 30 points for a single order. Which is a fair price for the ability to effectively be in multiple locations at once as long as you use them right... Ah, now I get it. But again, as with Tohaa case - this kind of mixing and matching was not what I wrote about.
It all depends on assigned roles and what is there to compete with it. Consider how Wildcats, the most valued MI of Corregidor to a point where a lot of people swear by their Core Fireteam as the base and center of their lists goes around 20-25 points per model. The riot Grrrls have much better dodge, MSV1, and mostly the same BS, with other weapon loadout (they only lack direct fire templates...) and cost about 30pts for the star profile (Specialist+Blitzen combi stun grenades)... and for the chinese: the base Zhuyong is a 27pts BS13, while the Wu Ming have a Duo-able Chain Rifle for 25pts (panzerfaust + light shotgun for 29pts 0.5SWC)... Sure, not a "send to die", but those are the cheapest HI ever. The Posthumans are better even by paying 30pts for an NWI mimetic doctor and SMG+HRL improved Brigada, the trick is not to try and use all bodies at once ^^
I think hollow men will be "Nomad" expendable not "kuang shi we dont care if they die" expendable, Nomads are likely fine them getting shit kicked out of them, as they are fixable. Just give them Karakuri style, dogged + Total immunity, you will be fine with them going down cause you can just fix them with clockmaker. Nomads especially Tunguska are not a "we dont care if we lose shit" race fluff wise everything is valuable to them so they would favour troops that can be fixed. IIRC alot of the proper Nomad military are REM based cause they dont have the population to throw into meat grinders of paradiso like yu jing and pan-o do. im expecting karakuri stat line - 1 BS -3 BTS and lose alot of the tool kits in Karakuri profile (carrying 1 weapon rather than 3 + pistol) to bring them to between 27-34 points then however much holo projector costs them im ballparking rough points to be securitate 15-17 points (slightly cheaper than wildcats) Heckler 24-30 (not quite prowler cost skirmisher but more than a Moran) Hollow men 30-38 borac HMG is 54 would put starter around 165-175 points ish
I'm not lobbying for anything and no one here knows what we have. I just said, after agreeing that i'm not fond of mixed links, that it would add some flexibility to the reduced number of units, assuming we don't get more. I believe USARF started with 9, so we may not get more.
They also don't have mixed fireteams and in my opinion are the best designed of the N3 Factions so far.
Technically USAriadna has 13 unique choices 10 of which are not characters (18 units in total) so far Tunguska has 11 rumoured unique units (hollow men, heckler,borac, nautical rem, puppets, szally,securitate,interventor,spektre,grenzer,unnamed character) of which 10 are not characters I prefer mixed teams cause I dislike the idea of taking "blocks of units" as it doesnt feel very spec ops to me, id personally prefer Tunguska to focus on mixed haris though rather than mixed 5 mans
Tunguska is still missing a couple troops, aside from Combat Puppets there still seems to be something lacking. Only 1 Infiltrator, 1 HI, 1 TAG, no AD, no Smoke, no MSV2. Currently they feel like a PanO Sectorial with very good Hacking, not sure if many Nomad purists will like this, I for one am a fan, it just fits. Still I'd like to see another Nomad style toolbox in there. How did you arrive at that conclusion? Tunguska is supposed to be Mafia, Svengali & the Banks. Expensive enforcers like the Hollow Men would not care if the ground floor meatsacks like Securitate live or die, pretty sure they're at the top of the foodchain. Completely opposed to that suggestion. If everyone gets handed mixed links like candy there will be powercreep all over the place, which is bad with a capital B. Until N4 comes out one day I'd hate to see more than slight adjustments or single additions for "complete" Sectorials. Fixing those that are undeniably subpar (Shas, MRRF,...) and adding new Sectorials sounds like a better use of ressources. The only place where I'd agree more mixed Links are good would be to create competition for certain dominant choices like the Hospitaler+Magister Link in MO (who ironically already are a mixed Link themselves). Direct competition to double down on certain strong points doesn't matter much imho. Introducing ways to circumvent weaknesses is where it gets problematic. Mixed Links can either be an instrument to redeem a deliberately subpar troop or one unable to form a deisireable Link by themself. When you're working with existing troops like NA2 does this just happens and seems appropriate. For a new Sectorial like Tunguska I'd appreciate the more professional appearence without mixed Links. It goes without saying that those Links should have several things going for them instead of ending up as an amalgam of mediocrity.
This is just like, my opinion, man, but USARF is my least favorite Infinity sectorial. It came out right when I started and tons of people were playing them. They were all playing the same damn list. They also were, for the most part, losing. The bikes intrigue me, but I don't find much else that they have compelling. USARF also had a dodge for the lack of units by having profiles with one off skills like infiltration in the line units. I like this approach even less than mixed links, but it would add options. I thought that was just an Ariadna thing though, since they have other units that are that way outside USARF.
Guys - let's stay cool minded. Interventors WON'T get a fireteam option neither as Harris not as an add-on to Fireteam Core. They are ultra-powerful as is and it'll stay thiss way. You can totally count on Grenzers getting some kind of interresting fireteam, also am sure that Hollow Man will follow into some fireteams. That's probably it. Tunguska might actually be the one Nomad Sectorial without a HI Fireteam Core - I really feel this might be an issue, thus probably some crazy Harris options around Hollow Man. Grenzers will probably get Core. Doubt they get any mix with existing profiles. Once again - maybe Hollow Man, or something. And that's probably it. There are NA2 armies for mixed Fireteams. Do not think Sectorials will have a massive change to the way Fireteams work there.
True, but then what we talk about? Based on my gut, I think Securitate will get Core, Grenzers will get Core and Haris, and Hollowmen will get Haris. I don't think we will get mixed links or one off profiles. That's not really the Nomad way. I think it is more likely though, that we will get access to some other Command's profiles. There are CJC units working in Haqq & Ariadna, I don't think having a couple of units working for Tunguska would be a big deal. I also think CSUs and ABHs are possible, maybe even likely. For Mercs, I think we will get Raoul, but not Emily or Uhahu. I also think that the Anaconda is possible. Beyond that I can't even make a guess. I would not be surprised if we had a couple of profiles that do not have models for a while, but those could be anything.
Profile count is a weird metric for evaluating things. I think it's entirely possible to create a competitive and flavorful Sectorial using fewer profiles. I also think you can make a Sectorial that doesn't have the standard toolbox of rules/equipment, and have it be totally strong. In many ways I hope for this, because I like the concept of lean, thematic, coherent forces. Vanilla is for versatility... So I'm interested in making Sectorials very, very good at a few things. I'm cool with that. Agreed with @Teslarod that Tunguska's shaping up like a PanO sectorial, and maybe that's why it catches my interest. The notion of a highly professional, small roster force with elite capabilities is more compelling to me than the mish-mash of profiles that we've seen in the NA2 Merc lists. At the end of the day, a Kriza Borac that's supported by 5 linkable line troopers is a winning proposition. It has the capability to get work done, and I say this from experience using NCA. Obviously a Sectorial can and should have far more than just those two options... But for players who are concerned that Tunguska isn't getting a lot of units, it really doesn't take that much for a force to be viable on the tabletop.
I had a long post, but it got eaten. The short version is: I'm sure TJC will be viable, but no matter how many games I win, if it plays like PanO and not like Nomads, I will be disappointed. I'm sure CB has it sorted though. The Heckler sounds like just the sort of dirty asymmetric trickster that drew me to this faction in the first place.
Profiles usually appear in Army, when the product is available in stores. So most probably June 25th.
