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New Teucer

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Kortz, Dec 7, 2018.

?

Do you think Teucer is now Better, Worse or simply Different?

Poll closed Dec 21, 2018.
  1. Better

    16 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. Worse

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. Different

    7 vote(s)
    23.3%
  1. Kortz

    Kortz Active Member

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    Now with the modifications to MARKSMANSHIP LEVEL X I find the MSV2 Feuerbach more attractive than before but I do not remember him having Multiterrain and Climbing Plus. This translates in a more expensive sniper, maybe the most expensive sniper solo piece in the game. Is this right or just my imagination?

    The new Profile costs:

    New Teucer.jpg

    Altogether, I do not know really what to think, he is a hell of a sniper, especially against big armored enemies, but also the new price is quite daunting. The Multiterrain is quite nice but I do not think its specially good on him, the Climbing plus its is a fine surprise.

    What do you, fellow aspects, think of it?

    Does this change the place, role and priority you would use it on your lists?
     
    Wolf likes this.
  2. The Revanchist

    The Revanchist Active Member

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    I like the change, personally. I think that 4 points is not a huge price for the versatility that Climbing Plus brings, and when Difficult Terrain comes up, it's significantly less punishing, since he's not limited to 2-2 MOV.

    Climbing Plus is a great skill for getting good firing angles, which will make Teucer more useful (and I already liked him).
     
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  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Frack. I voted Good without seeing the extra cost and skills. And you left out the option to change the vote.

    So. Worse. The MMX is situational, but now it allows for some extra shenanigans, considering more enemies have Nimbus grenades, without depending on the terrain, and rolling at 20 places him at Atalanta's level to all effects, with the ingoring cover extra.

    The +4 points for Multiterrain and Climbing plus kill the profile for me, because, simply put, it's a Netrod. One. Full. Order. To give movility to a troop I have never needed to move more than a few cm/inches to change the angle.
     
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  4. Kortz

    Kortz Active Member

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    Sorry, now you can change your vote.
     
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  5. Deltabeoulve

    Deltabeoulve Member

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    Did he change? According to the N3 Profile pdf (I've had it downloaded forever) there is nothing on there that is different. Same point cost..has always had climbing plus and multi-terrain.
     
  6. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    MMX is considerably better than it used to be. Try running the numbers a bit. You can get some pretty nice benefits out of it. Especially with high Dmg low B weapons like the feurerbach.
     
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  7. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I'm seeing the same thing. Mine is v4.2 from 9/22. Can somebody post the old profile?
     
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  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The skill is undoubtedly better, but the Free Agent skill was bloat enough, now they gave him Multiterrain, Climbing Plus and +4 points cost, that makes it a simple math: 1 order or Teucer, now 9 points more expensive than Atalanta, and let's not compare him to the barebones Agemas (or the Spitfire Deva in vanilla).
    The Mk5 proxy with MMX is sligthly better, but still too expensive and competes against the SMG+E/M grenades loadout... so no contest there.

    teucerOLD.JPG

    One of the profiles only, with Feuerbach, and I'm sorry it's in spanish... it comes from one of my saved lists (in pdf in my HDD) straight from May 2016...
     
    RogueJello likes this.
  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Hitting on a 23 though. That's pretty awesome. He'll put a big APDA hole in anything he looks at.
     
  10. Kortz

    Kortz Active Member

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    Thats right, The Old profile was 4 points cheaper (41, 44 and 43) and did not had Multiterrain and Climbing Plus. My phone App still has those profiles XD
     
    #10 Kortz, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    Golem2God likes this.
  11. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
    Warcor

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    Not just hitting on 23 with AP+DA, but also ignoring ARM bonus from cover. Now that's scary even for heavy stuff.
     
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  12. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Personally I'd say the MMX matters more on Teucer. Remember the each BS over 20 is equivalent of over -1 for your opponent to hit. This helps Teucer being able to dig out Camo units or TR bots has a reasonable value. The Change in BS and loss of MSV is a pretty big hit. I can see where Teucer has a role now (Albeit maybe not enough of one to justify super heavy use). But he can dig out some pretty annoying models. Try looking at hte numbers for Teucer Vs. a Q Dron or a TO Sniper. Its pretty solid. Depending on your meta or what problems you're finding I can see where Teucer might have a place.
     
  13. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Let's not forget we can supply him with Smoke. 23 to hit against additional -6...
     
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  14. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    MMX is much better than it used to be.

    The problem with Teucer has always been how expensive he already is. So he became *more* expensive. He is paying more for mobility on a troop that almost never moves more than a couple inches anyway.

    Basically, I like the fact that MMX is now relevant, but holy crap, stacking bloat on a unit that was bearing on "too expensive to be worth" already is a problem.
     
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  15. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    He looks like some sort of hunter now. Not a static sniper but a mobile killer. I'm not sure about what it's worth through, since while he's good, there are others that can fill the same role. MMX is still only burst 1 when we have so many good B4 killers (myrm/deva spitfire, dakini/garuda, Achilles/Patroclus ...)
     
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  16. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Instead of making him cheaper ;(...crap...

    I thought he'd get something like bioimmunity ....or they'd make him frenzy, so it would be cheaper and would provide an extra order for MMX? :) but nope... bunch of "super" skills instead :(

    I always liked miniature, but i never liked that tons of situational rules on him... The way new MMX works now - you need somehow position yourself, then spend whole order to shoot (mmx long skill now). You can do it if you're in smoke. So, you'll need at least 3 orders to make him work - 1. throw smoke, 2. positioning, 3. finaly shoot... what if your opponents army is in total cover? You've spent 48 pts for nothing then. For those who thinks how great new MMX is - I do not think it is great, being long order, it became more difficult to find position and more order cost, to throw smoke, before I can use this skill... ;(

    p.s.
    Mb. it is somekind of Aleph balancing - AP ammunition is expensive and hard to get? In oss though there is linked smart missle launcher though, who can hit same way, but waaaay cheaper...eh
     
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  17. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I dont think anyone is saying MMX is -great- but it went from being a skill that essentially never had a use to a skill that you want to consider using when given the opportunity. Thats a very big difference.

    The Smart missile is not actually linkable in OSS. Theres an alternative profile with a regular Missile.

    There are linkable smart missiles in Invincible Army but the smart missiles don't actually benefit from the Linked Team bonuses. All they apply is the +6 Guided mod.
     
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  18. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    Indeed...smart missle launcher -not, but usual missle launcher...sooo... - +3 for link, +1 to burst for link + marksamnship level 2 from hacker - shooting ignoring cover on 2x 18....and ammuntion is either EXP + template or EXP+AP, but not ignoring ARM from cover...I'd prefer linked missle instead of teucer :)

    When you take teucer - you'd probably won't have lots of orders, considering his cost, his skills make him orders hungry ....I strongly doubt he became better :)
     
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  19. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    MMLX also helps Teucer a bit more due to only losing 1 burst vs 2 with the Mk12
     
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  20. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    The OSS Missile launcher is good but there is a big difference between BS 18 and 23s. Each Point over 20 is more effective than a -1 to your opponent's roll.

    Thats not to say Linked Missiles are bad nor that Teucer is some sort of unstoppable monster. Infact I'm sure there are lots of things the linked Missiles are more effective at. but a Linked Samekh is running a minimum of 74pts, it should be putting out more damage. Teucer comes to the table at cheaper than the linked ML and available in two (three?) factions which can't get the ML in the same way. That has value in my books :)
     
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