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New Spec-Ops Options

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Balewolf, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    It's relative ;P
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Relative to my arse *shakes fist* :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
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  3. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    The weapon lists don't discriminate that way. It's entirely faction based.

    Because I'm procrastinating, here's some weapon lists. I wouldn't want to be accused of human favoritism, so here's two human, Aleph, and two alien weapon lists. :smiling_imp:
    HAQQ
    • 1 EXP CC Weapon
    • 1 Viral CC Weapon
    • 1 D-Charges
    • 1 Stun Pistol
    • 2 Grenades
    • 2 Nanopulser
    • 2 Viral Pistol
    • 3 Contender
    • 3 E/Marat
    • 3 Pazerfaust
    • 4 Boarding Shotgun
    • 4 Jammer
    • 4 Submachine Gun
    • 5 Breaker Rifle + Light Shotfun
    • 5 Viral Rifle
    • 5 Light Rocket Launcher
    • 5 Red Fury
    • 6 Viral Sniper Rifle
    • 6 Spitfire
    • 8 HMG
    Pan O
    • 1 AP CC Weapon
    • 1 EXP CC Weapon
    • 1 D-Charges
    • 1 Dropbears
    • 1 Stun Pistol
    • 2 Nanopulser
    • 2 Light Shotgun
    • 3 Assault Pistol
    • 3 Panzerfaust
    • 4 E/Mitter
    • 4 Boarding Shotgun
    • 4 Breaker Combi Rifle
    • 4 Shock Marksman Rifle
    • 4 Jammer
    • 4 SMG
    • 5 Multi Rifle
    • 5 Light Rocket Launcher
    • 5 Feuerbach
    • 5 Red Fury
    • 6 Multi Sniper Rifle
    • 6 Spitfilre
    • 8 HMG
    Tohaa
    • 1 Viral CC Weapon
    • 1 D-Charges
    • 1 Stun Pistol
    • 2 Adhesive Launcher
    • 2 Nanopulser
    • 2 Viral Pistol
    • 3 Fammenspeer
    • 3 Pulzar
    • 4 Vulkan Shotgun
    • 4 Heavy Flamethrower
    • 4 Shock Marksman Rifle
    • 4 SMG
    • 4 Breaker Combi Rifle
    • 5 Viral Combi Rifle
    • 5 Light Rocket Launcher
    • 5 Red Fury
    • 6 Phero-Booster
    • 6 Spitfire
    • 8 HMG
    Aleph
    • 1 AP CC Weapon
    • 1 EXP CC Weapon
    • 1 D-Charges
    • 1 Breaker Pistol
    • 1 Stun Pistol
    • 2 Nanopulser
    • 2 Contender
    • 3 Assault Pistol
    • 4 Boarding Shotgun
    • 4 Breaker Combi Rifle'
    • 4 Shock Marksman Rifle
    • 4 SMG
    • 5 Feuerbach
    • 5 Multi Rifle
    • 5 Light Rocket Launcher
    • 5 Red Fury
    • 5 K1 Sniper Rifle
    • 6 Multi Sniper Rilfle
    • 6 Spitfire
    • 8 HMG

    Combined Army:
    • 1 EXP Close Combat
    • 1 D-Charges
    • 1 Stun Pistol
    • 1 AP Heavy Pistol
    • 2 Monofilament CC
    • 2 Grenades
    • 2 Nanopulser
    • 3 Pulzar
    • 4 Plasma Carbine
    • 4 Boarding Shotgun
    • 4 Breaker Combi Rifle
    • 4 K1 Combi Rifle
    • 4 Shock Marksman Rifle
    • 4 SMG
    • 5 Vulkan Shotgun
    • 5 Multi Rifle
    • 5 Light Rocket Launcher
    • 5 Mk12
    • 5 Red Fury
    • 6 K1 Sniper Rifle
    • 6 Multi Sniper Rifle
    • 6 Plasma Rifle
    • 6 Spitfire
    • 8 HMG
     
  4. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    That's a joke that the SMG costs 4 points, especially when the troops already have a Combi Rifle.

    Edit: are there values for the Nexus Spec Ops in the book?
     
  5. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    At first glance I don't think those lists look balanced. PanO has access to very nice weapons (Feuerbach, jammer, marksman rifle, drop bears, .. ), which somehow makes sense, but CA has a larger list. I'm getting the feeling YJ one will look underwhelming compared to those…

    So I suppose skill list will be shorter on those factions in order to make up for their longer weapon lists. I really hope so, otherwise I'm gonna call BS to this system.
     
  6. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    YJ has never really had any super unique weapon options except for MadTraps, so I'm hoping they make the list. YJ's strength has always been flexibility though, so maybe it will also get a longer list?

    Considering the Chassis as well is probably a good idea. The Hassassin and OSS specops are miles ahead of others, so I'm hoping they have a few more limitations for choosing weapons/skills. The Taagma and Nexus are probably just below that.
     
  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    There are no troop profiles in the book. All of the rules in the book are just for the campaign system.
    (Stealth edit: Okay, fine. The profile for Ko Dali, Tiger Soldier Sergeant is on page 155, for a scenario, but that doesn't count because they put Vampire Ko Dali's artwork on the page, instead of Tiger Soldier Ko Dali's artwork. If you want an illustration of what's wrong with boob socks, there it is... :face_with_rolling_eyes:).

    You don't get a hard copy of the new rules PDF in this book, by the way. There's like 31 pages combined between Infinity Campaign System, the experience rules, and suggestions on how to organize a Paradiso campaign because the four related chapters may be a bit of an obstacle to organize around. 42 pages "Scenarios: The Paradiso Crossroad" and 10 pages "Scenarios: Daedalus' Fall".

    No one has the Nexus Spec Ops until it shows up in Army, or they put out a new PDF.
    Edit: I'm pretty sure you're supposed to use the Nexus Operatives (Infinity Spec Ops) profile on page 35 of the daedalus_fall_profiles.pdf.

    "Infinity Spec Ops" is the skill that Spec Ops key off of, "Each player can only have 1 single Infinity Spec Ops to play in a campaign..."
     
    #27 solkan, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
    Balewolf, xagroth and Ben Kenobi like this.
  8. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    After double checking, the Infinity Spec Ops profiles are in the Daedalus Falls Profiles PDF, even if they're not visible in Army.
     
    Ben Kenobi likes this.
  9. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, found it.
     
  10. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I've got to say, there are some REAL head scratchers in here.

    CB still think people will pay for K1 Sniper Rifles?
    They understand that SMGs are good, and have a relatively high cost here, but not for base points on troopers?
    WHO will pay for an AP CCW when an EXP CCW is the same cost?
    Ain't nobody paying for an E/Mitter when they can get the other options at 4pts for PanO.

    But, overall, I like the changes.

    I just wish you weren't still obviously better getting army upgrades than a Spec Ops you can get killed.
     
    Berjiz, BLOODGOD, xagroth and 2 others like this.
  11. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    I can't claim to have much experience with campaigns, but my impression of the spec ops XP payoff is:
    1. It's something to do when you're waiting to make your promotion roll.
    2. It's essentially free (no army points or SWC spent) equipment and skills.
    I mean, I could see doing a campaign variant where you get multiple spec-ops XP per “strategic” XP point (or just give players both strategic and spec ops XP at the end of each game) if you really wanted more focus on hero building.

    But the maximum penalty that a player will suffer is being without the spec ops for a single game. That's after failing both a casevac and cubevac roll for civilized factions. You’re starting out with 1W troopers, there really aren’t a whole lot of “partially disabled” alternatives to use instead of “Skip a game”.
     
  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Erhm...
    Vulkan shotgun 4 points for Tohaa Specops, FIVE points for Combined Army??? I mean... it was Morat only... wut???

    :S
     
  13. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    CB doesn't seem to play the same game as the rest of us.
     
  14. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    For what it’s worth, there were a few changes in points between the N2 and N3 weapon lists. Maybe they were thinking of adding Dual Wield at some point?

    Worst part of it is Spiral Corps having to go through a campaign using the NA2 lists instead of the Tohaa lists. :-/

    Vulkan Shotgun used to be 3pts for Tohaa and not on the list for Combined Army on the old charts. Page 190 of Campaign Paradiso has a similar or same “Similar versions of the Vulkan Shotgun area by the Tohaa military forces and by the Morat” description that HSN3 has.

    Edit: Ectros have the Vulkan Shotgun profile.
     
    #34 solkan, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  15. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Ectros have always had them.
     
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  16. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting for that sculpt, when I fielded that Ectros it never dissapointed me.
     
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  17. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    No kidding!
     
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  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Don't get me wrong, I understand the advantages of a Spec Ops.

    But it's going to be pretty rare for someone to get to the end of their first chain of army upgrades without getting a promotion.

    And IF you get your Spec Ops back does depend on "mode".

    Generally speaking I'm mostly pointing out how good the army options can be.

    Yeah, they REALLY don't in many ways.
     
  19. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Not in the new rules, it doesn’t. Unlike Campaign: Paradiso, the rules in Daedalus’ Fall don’t leave the spec ops model dead and the XP wasted.

    In the new rules, the -only- penalty (and this is stated explicitly) is not being able to use the Spec-Ops in the next game. Then you get everything back.
     
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  20. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Hunh, good call.

    I am thinking about characters.