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New player looking for VIRD/Cutter List help

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Domino25, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    A few friends of mine have just started with Infinity. I'm enthusiastic to get started but we have to wait for the starter sets to show up and our next chance to game. So I've been reading some of the tacticas and other forum posts while working on a PanO list. My limited knowledge and initial direction lead me from vanilla PanO to the VIRD sectorial list I've pasted below.

    Varuna List
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    CUTTER Lieutenant MULTI HMG / . (3 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    CLIPPER DRONBOT (Varuna Div.) (Aquatic Terrain) Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The Cutter is the big toy that is both attractive and disruptive my list. It's already being shipped and I'm excited to play with it it. However, it takes up a lot of points leaving me struggling to fit other assets and order cheerleaders in. I've pretty much decided I want to use it in our first few matches, and then start switching in lists without it as my friends start building around counters.

    Supporting the cutter, I have set up a Kamu Sniper in link team because that sounded like a very good ARO piece/group of cheerleaders. I put BIPANDRA in there as that whole link loses a lot of it's value if the kamu goes down. In theory, I need KHD to defend against other hackers, thus the Zulu Cobra. This leaves the Harris team I was trying to put together with 2 functions in mind, 1) supporting the Cutter with repair and defensive AROs and 2) my "button pusher". I've got Pasty for Nimbus Grenades, the machinist and clipper missile Rem in there. I'm hoping the machinist can earn his keep repairing the clipper and cutter.

    Since I lack any actual game experience, have too much waiting time on my hands, and would rather correct my list before buying more pieces; I'm hoping some of the more seasoned players on this forum could give me some feedback/advice on the list or even just on playing it. One question I struggled with was Vanilla vs VIRD, and the other is how to build a list around the cutter. Will 10 orders be enough? I will be mostly playing against Nomads and Yu Jing.

    Thanks!
     
    AdmiralJCJF and barakiel like this.
  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Individually, your list is full of great tools. Cutter, Patsy Haris, and Kamau + Fusilier link are all solid gold.

    As a single list though, I think they compete with one another a bit. Using Patsy is order-intensive. Doctoring can be order intensive (not always, but it can be.) And you have a Machinist, but since he doesn't have a Palbot, he'll also need a lot of Orders to support your Cutter.

    I'd consider dropping Patsy, folding those points into a Zulu Cobra Sensor/Jammer to help with Discover and defense, and then get a palbot for your engineer.

    Note too that the Cutter Lieutenant can be dangerous, because the Cutter can't fully use his Hidden Deployment while he's the LT. An LT who starts the game in Hidden Deployment will cause his army to be in Loss of Lieutenant state. As a result, you probably want a basic Fusilier as your LT. If you do this change, Patsy becomes a little bit better here because she's more likely to use her NCO rule.

    If you like the idea of using the LT rule, consider the Zulu Cobra Sensor Lieutenant. That's a great, well-protected LT who can still use his Order to support your other troops.
     
    Domino25, Ben Kenobi and Stiopa like this.
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Hi there, and welcome to the Hyperpower ;)

    My first point of advice would be to start learning at lower point levels - 100-150 pts - to get some experience with basics. Play a few games, add 50 pts, play some more, repeat until getting to 300 pts. Jumping into the deep end can be disheartening at first.

    Second advice would be to look here. @daboarder's guide is a great help if you want to use TAGs.

    As for the actual list: Cutter Lt. is risky - it'll go down eventually, and then you're in Loss of Lieutenant, probably behind the reach of Machinist, and without a second assault unit in your army. Enemy warbands and skirmishers can also mess up its operations, especially given Cutter's lack of flamethrower or a skirmisher screen to retreat behind.

    There's also nothing mobile enough to reach any troublesome models in hiding - especially MSV2 or anything with a flamethrower.

    Additionally, if your Haris will go forward Clipper's functionality will go way down.

    In the end I think I'd go this way: no Haris, but Bulleteer is one of the best and cost-effective killer units in PanO. Echo Bravo will be able to support the TAG, guard it, hunt units hiding behind TAG's reach, and provide Repeater coverage.

    You can switch Lt. between Cutter and Fusilier, maybe downgrading FO's to keep enemy guessing. As barakiel said, Cutter Lt. won't be able to use Hidden Deployment.

    Varuna List
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    CUTTER Lieutenant MULTI HMG / . (3 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    ECHO-BRAVO Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, WildParrot / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Ben Kenobi, Domino25 and barakiel like this.
  4. Domino25

    Domino25 Member

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    Thanks for the advice! A few things I took away from it:

    1) Cutter Lieutenant is risky, I should start in Marker state but it will still get taken out leading to loss of lieutenant. In the very least, mix it up between matches.

    2) I need a plan for Marker state units. A sensor/jammer or flame thrower being the common approaches.

    3) Bulleteers are a bargain and work as a backup assault piece.

    4) Read @daboarder's guide (check).

    5) Start with a smaller Army. I'm working on a 200 point army list, it's less fun because the Cutter is probably not gonna make it.

    I started playing around with my 300 point list after reading your feedback. I might have gotten carried away with Remotes after putting in the Bulleteer. I put an EVO hacker to buff the Bulleteer and a Pathfinder to support the Cutter with Sensor & Sat Lock.

    With the intention of playing cautiously, I have kept the Cutter in as the Lieutenant for now, but I will alternate/flip a coin/randomize when I use a different Lieutenant. Is it overly optimistic to rely on putting the cutter back in friendly cover & in marker state at the end of turns?

    I like the idea of the EVO hacker buffs. Overclock should help the Bulleteer & Pathfinder. Even buffed I'm concerned the pathfinder will be too squishy to support the Cutter with defense/discovery. You had suggested a ZULU-COBRA or Echo Bravo for that role, both of which have Camo and better stats. That said, I do still have a ZULU-COBRA KHD which can assist in defense. I'm wondering if I should keep the KHD since I have the EVO hacker which can help on hacking defense? I also have more repeaters, so it can try to Brain blast hackers behind the safety of firewalls.

    My final question is who should I put in Group 2? I dropped the machinist there for now, I assume one order a turn to get his palbot in position and to repair something is a good use.

    Varuna List Remotes
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    CUTTER Lieutenant MULTI HMG / . (3 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Plenty of good stuff in there.

    The challenge with EVO and buffing is that it's order-intensive to use. One option is putting the EVO by itself in Group 2, where it just uses its own order to buff every turn.

    If the Engineer does end up being needed to fix something, it'll probably require more than 1 Order.

    so swapping the EVO and Machinist should be a pretty easy solution.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    @Domino25 Might want to take a look at @daboarder taking a Cutter for a spin at Cancon and winning the whole thing in the process. Playing a TAG usually means planning the list around supporting and compensating in case of losing the TAG.
    Good luck and have fun with the Hyperpower.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...ed-to-stop-worrying-and-just-roll-dice.26858/

    Personally I think a Cutter benefits a lot from sacrificial AROs like Fugazi, Helots and Warcors to stop the opposing player from having a go at your Order pool early on. Meaning despite the high price, I'd usually look at somehow reaching 14 Orders (Regular+Irregular) including at least 2 other gunners than the Cutter himself. Especially the EVO doesn't seem to fit into the same list as a solo piece as expensive as the Cutter and should probably be cut for more Orders, Helots or in favour of an additional gunner.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  7. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, Helots just made the running the Cutter a whole lot more viable. And it was always a nasty TAG to deal with. Your greatest weakness as a Cutter is Melee. Avoid CC units like the plague. Having a bunch of Helots, warcors, and Fugazi to waste your opponents orders is an excellent defense for a Cutter.

    As Teslarod said, having some secondary attackers on a different flank from your Cutter can be very effective.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very much so. Waaaay back in the day (I'm talking N1/N2), the Cutter had a heavy flamethrower. It's much easier to deal with now that it cannot light Ninjas and whatnot on fire.
     
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  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I still think it should have gotten the Heavy Pistol, like the Squalo, instead.
     
  10. st3ncil

    st3ncil Member

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    the Cutter List I came up with:
    more power
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    MACHINIST (Varuna Div.) (CH: Mimetism, Stealth, Aquatic Terrain) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Do you guys think the TechBee is worth it or not really?
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    She's not bad, and your list is looking pretty good!

    If I were to tweak it:
    more power
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    ZULU-COBRA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]2
    ZULU-COBRA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This way you have a better repeater network to attack enemy hackers, you have a safer LT option, and a greater sensor area