These will make a nice aggressive Haris when you're going points-heavy with the rest of your list. As for the likely third team member, there are rumors that Perseus is a Wildcard, yeah? Seems like a dream team. Glad for balance they can't do a full Core with him, if that's the case.
we really think perseus gets wildcard? I think he might be left with the cheerkillers but certainly can't be wildcard. I mean it would be wonderful. Perseus in a hollowman link. As already mentioned, I would like to see a better link team structure, especially for HM. I don't understand what the combinations with the kriza are supposed to do
Supr Jump allows you to jump over long gaps and use a shortcut to get onto buildings. Good news is that now you can pre-measure movement, so you know if you end up your Superjump in a right spot. Falling being no more is a huge nerf, but there's still some use for Superjump. It opens up some unexpected routes of approach for these gals.
FWIW The Savage Wars series (Galaxy's Edge sub-series) by by Jason Anspach and Nick Cole, gives a great narrative of loosely what I assume Hollow Men have going on with their depiction of the Pantheon Savage Marines. I have always felt that the reason TJC didn't get a wildcard unit was because of the Hollow Men. Thematically I don't think CB wants other units to join their fireteam. It makes narrative sense that Virtual or heavily Augmented reality soldiers wouldn't necessarily fit tactically with units who were not invested in the same altered reality they experience. That said, the Hollow Man can join with the Kriza which more or less makes my reasoning moot. Any idea that Perseus would get wildcard is pure speculation at this point and AFAIK not even a credible rumor. That said, as has been pointed out in this thread, some of the fire teams available to Tunguska are awkward at the least and hopeless at best. If we're really lucky maybe CB will revisit TJC (and maybe more factions) fire teams in N4 when they create the Fire Team rules PDF. Personally I think that an Interventor ought to be able to join a Securitate fireteam and that the Kriza harris needs to be reworked because there is really no reason to take it. I'd also like to see some more flexibility with the Bro-harris too. A serious pipe dream of mine is to have the Grenzer harris profile be the sensor profile too. At this point who knows where Cheer Killers will end up. Some of the speculation I have seen so far ranges from them being counts-as in a Hollow Man core, to being led by Perseus, to a straight up wild card role. Wherever it falls, it will really determine how and how often they get played.
And the most common use, jumping up to see over terrain, is still possible unless it's particularly tall terrain. 2"/50mm + 40mm of S2 Silhouette is still enough to see over most single-storey buildings, which are typically 3"/75mm high.
Stop the constant fireteam mish-mash frenzy. Cheerkillers are good enough on their own. I know Tunguska is lacking behind on the fireteam front compared the other new sectorials, but imho the fault is to be found in the other sectorials.
The one thing that would be achieved with bringing Perseus into a cheap Haris FT would be that Securitates role as defense "I want the Core bonus but am afraid to move my Fireteam so I stick to a building in my DZ" is cemented.
Unfortunately that is generally just the best link teams. While I love using a Perseus Core, a defensive Securitate Core is way more effective. I think the fact we get offensive options like the Kriza and Puppets help cement that.
About Perseus being wildcard, is it really a rumour? or is just a wish from someone that other person mistook as a rumour? Apart from making it wilcard, it needs to be the full profile, not only the FTO we have at the moment. Superjump has been nerfed, but I think it can still be useful. Actually, it works as I thought it worked (until certain someone teach me at interplanetario how it really was used, dammed jumping monkeys!). I think it will still be as useful, just not so easy to use: jumping from a rooftop to floor will need a complete order for this girls instead of a single one, so no jump+shot some of the time, which makes them less versatile (hollomen still will be more movile for that), but still, will help them bypass some possitional weapons and corridors. The big thing for them is not having stealth, which will make them not so viable to go close combat. But with perseus, that could bring some shenanigans. the more I look to them, the more I like them. My main problem is that this looks like the same movement CB did for CJC at the beggining of N3 with the jaguars. A warband not so clasical-warband (because diferent times, the "clasical-thig" is different too), unit with the same cost a similar profile as the basic linetrooper of the faction but with direct template weapon and alternative weaponry, new haris option, will substitute the linetrooper in some lists/roles, needs a cc-beast to make their haris more interesting, one of their profiles looks like it will need to be babysitting/babysitted by another dude for the smoke-combo (intruder/zondnautica), and so. Anyway, I think that a 25-points no-SWC mid-range weapon can be more usefull in some games besides Percy, even if they are not linked I think some people assume TJC goes over 15 orders usually and will go full TW without problems, just changing cheap dudes to others a bit more expensive. During last years, I've seen a lot of people assuming anything nomad is "above the best" over similar options in other factions, and cheap enought to pull everything in the same list. Then, you go to the game and they start "why don't you have this? and this? and this?" and I have to remind them "because this is TJC, costs are over the average, and not everything can fit in the same list". Hapened to me in interplanetario, and in the EIC (and then a chat about point costs and SWC). I usually have problems to go over 14 models, so TW is no problem to be, but people here saying that "upgrade pulsebots to CK" makes me thing that they haven't taken a serious look into the faction. IF the faction struggles to make solid 15-miniatures lists, how can "changing 8-point miniatures to 13-25 points miniatures to get to 15 miniatures" make it better? it is a bit of absurd, because in those lists, there will need a change to downgrade something else to get those numbers. I just don't think this girls will substitute pulsebots. Instead, I think that the inclusion of them will lead to change some lists dessigns around securitates. But we also need all N4 pointcosts.
Wouldn’t an easy fix for that be to remove Fireteam: Core from the Hollow Men and modify their Special Fireteam: Core to be “up to 5 Hollow Men + up to one Stempler Zond FTO”? (Unless I’ve been doing wildcards wrong this whole time. For some reason I have it in my head that they can’t join special fireteams, but now that I’m looking at the rules I can’t find that anywhere in the actual text. Hm.)
Hm on their own what to they really do? There's loads of overlap with existing things. TJC has Superjump galore, more than useable CC and the revised 4-4 MSV1 Grenzer Spitfire gives the MSV2 MMR a run for the money. Superjump is pretty good for roofsweeping but Perseus takes the cake on that front. Was Specialist coverage a problem for anyone? Trying to parse what they're meant to do I come up empty. We might be missing mixed Link options or something. As escort for HM/Perseus they could be pretty nice.
Keep in mind that with so many elements of the faction potentially shifting in N4 that speculation is sketchy at this point. Currently Hollow Men core list are pretty top heavy and usually cannot bring a Grenzer Harris mainly because of SWC costs and wanting the big guns in both the harris and the HM core. Typically my HM core lists have always run without any Muti-spectral Visor support. At the very least Cheer Killers will allow for a mobile MSV2 harris for roughly half the cost and a lot less SWC than the Grenzer harris. That could let these lists reach past the single battlegroup line more easily, and if costs come down a bit they maybe even have some flexibility in reaching a full Tactical Window list. My earlier assumption that they could be used as replacements for cheaper flashpulse bots as order monkeys is largely incorrect as @Armihaul has pointed out. What else they can do for TJC is really going to depend on what special fireteams they can make. In Vanilla, Nomads players are probably going to run the MSV2 profile quite a bit.
Wildcards can substitute anyone, so a Wildcard could enter any kind of fireteam (even an strict 4HM+Stempler FTO). I don't think that was the reason for no wildcard. I partly agree with some of it. But superjum was not so commonly extended in TJC: until now, 1 unit, 1 character and 1 remote option. It was more present in lists because HM were more useful than other options. But... "more than useable CC"? with only 2 CC characters, but also remember that HM is one of the worse HI in regards of CC MSV1 might be used, but it is not substitute for MV2 even if it has the option of shotting through smoke. That is like saying that, against a TO/OOD, a non-visor troop is the same as a MSV2. 6 points of difference are a lot. In a core that might be different, depending how it interacts with 6th sense. I agree, with perseus the jumping thing is more or les done, but on the same time, he is one of the two smoke sources, both are relativelly expensive, and he cannot do all those roles at the same time. Specialist coverage itself is not a problem, but not because TJC, but because ITS is less specialist dependant nowadays. Grenzers were expensive enough both in points and SWC to make it harder to chose them, and bringing an interventor inside is not so good idea. HM were a HI haris with no optional troopers (which in any other faction is not used neither), no stempler with them. Kriza haris is simply absurd, and bro-haris takes out the best things of each other. Also, apart from the expensive spectres, there are not direct-midfield specialists, only AD1. I think CB tried to bring some direct-confrontation shooters with TJC that didn't deppend on visual mods or higher BS values. But because there were a lot of not-so-useful things making the profiles so expensive, and a bad fireteam structure, I think they miss the mark, specially for a supposedly hi-tech elite faction. Also, I think testing was not done right, for example some testers said that the supresion fire + full auto malus was intended, yet CB changed it after all the claims making excuses, but there are some things that make me think the testing was not intensive as with other factions, or not done the same way
Hard disagree on Cheerkillers in Vanilla and Perseus being significantly better in a Fireteam. In Vanilla Cheerkillers only stand out is and unlinked B3 MSV3... next to Intruders who are and will be easily affordable. Their other loadout options and basic kit are nothing special and I'd take a Jaguar, Zero or Bandit any day without thinking twice over them. Solo Perseus isn't leashed to a squishy backline LI Fireteam I wouldn't want anywhere near the midfield at the end of turn 1. And ofc doesn't get Superjump which allows him to roofsweep nicely.
