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New models gamedesign

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Ktulhuist09, Aug 24, 2022.

  1. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I am very like intruders, this is 1 wounded model for 41 point. Looks weird, costs more than many HIs, but all of its value is invested in dominance in shooting. His got camo and msv2 and can give -12 with shooting through smoke, also give -3 with surprise and its okay, everyone accepting this. But now allmost every linked aro got msv and just ignoring all that stuff and there is no difference between shooting with fully loaded with skills hmg gunner and shooting with defolt HI without any skills.
     
  2. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    I am a big fan of Sixth sense. I think, the skill is important in this game. What i very much not like, is how it is spread like free candy on Halloween throughout the sectorials. I realy wished with the Fireteam update to make sixth sense a pure-link only thing or at least the 5-unit-bonus, for i think thats the most powerful feature right after having the extra burst. But obviously its enough to be a group of four to get jedi-powers for ignoring ZvZ, Stealth, suprises and beeing shot in the back.
    Imho thats crutches to nullify poor positioning for not the cost sixth sense should have. But thats just my vanilla opinion.

    Also, novadays its for a release not enough to be a 2W BS13 unit with a good weapon if theres not some nasty stuff aditionally attached to it (looking at you, hoplite). If a unit does not have a B4 weapon, BS12+ and at least Mimetism or MSV (or both), there will be a Unit doing the same work, but better. Beeing a hammer is not enough anymore. You have to sparkle and make cool noices. Or you have to be stupid cheap. Otherwise you will be getting outpreformed by basic units in a linkteam.
     
    #82 anubis, Sep 7, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  3. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    At one moment you are understand that there is no reason to take risks and shotout with all that stuff, cause you best option is ftf on equals and just start use smart missile launcher. You have 0 chances to be killed back and just sending rockets to the most valuable target.
     
    anubis likes this.
  4. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    defenetly right. Most OP tactic there is, as already approved on 37 pages in this very forum. Right after Jazz.
    The big question is: do u want to have a fun game or is the goal to win, no matter how unfun it is for both you and your opponent. Or maybe you just play the game for winning, cause thats the only way you can have fun.
    Still think there is a different in picking the equivalent of breaking your own legs before running, or just buy a car and drive over your fellow companions, because "the rules do not say its not allowed".
    But away from the principle discussion.

    It feels ....not good, if there are units in the same price segment obviously worse than another (especially if its the same faction), e.g. Taskmaster and Kriza (just comparing vanilla here, put down the pitchforks).
    Or, a new Unit with the obvious and (nearly) only purpose: "Go there, shoot things" and then its a BS 13 HMG with nothing else but CC. I mean, still kinda OK, cause hoplite is one of 2 infantery based HMG (and the other is a damn line infanterie).
    I WILL play hoplite, cause i realy realy like the modell. But it will feel.....well...
     
    #84 anubis, Sep 7, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2022
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    Lol, I lived to see the day someone is saying the Taskmaster is better than the Kriza.

    Not making fun of you guys, just laughing at the way things work.
     
  6. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    Yep, that´s exactly how i meant that =)
     
  7. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    Got bored again so now embrace how a Kriza performs or would perform with
    a) Mimetism (-3)
    b) BS Attack (-3)
    c) Marksmanship
    against a shooting / dodging oponent (same as in my previous post)
    upload_2022-9-9_9-4-16.png
    As you can see the effects of Marksmanship and BS Attack (-3) are almost identical in this setup (always BS 13 / BS 16 for the Kriza).

    Then here's how Bolt, Kriza and Spetsnaz (would) perform against the same opponent now with a B2 ARO:
    upload_2022-9-9_9-32-32.png
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This is factually wrong and Jisus is not amused at your blasphemy.

    A unit needs to be competitively priced for the tools that the unit brings (and it needs to be fielded by someone willing to use the tools they are given) to be good. Mimetism (which, again, Kriza does have) and MSV are tools that typically make a unit competitively priced - when the unit follows CB's pricing standards, which the Kriza doesn't seem to be doing.
     
    Elric of Grans and burlesford like this.
  9. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    Sorry, i was not speaking about the facts but a sarcastic version of how it is recognized by the loud voices on the internet. Again, referencing the Hoplite.

    imho a unit has to represent in its stats and special rules and equipment the cost it brings to the table and the Army (sectorial) it is in. Not long ago i read an post complaining about scylla beeing not a multibox tool and she lacks smoke to be able to leave the DZ. In an army and sectorial with the option to run myrmidons and myrm officers (meaning: smoke and eclipse).
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Kinda same deal with complaining that Mimetism is denied by Kamau when the faction has plenty of good HD+.
     
  11. Kwisatz Haderach

    Kwisatz Haderach Zelenograd Shasvastii
    Warcor

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    Its because the guy takes 2 6pts Morlocks with him :)
     
  12. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I very like infinity community. On chinese threads everyone is whining about the fact that Bixie has msv 1 instead of msv 2. And same people sad thats bs attack -3 is gamebreaking) No one give a fuck thats new profiles with 3 lines of special rules on new profiles is just powercreep.
     
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  13. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 May his passage cleanse the world.

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    Just because a profile has a bunch of rules, doesn't make it powercreep...sometimes, it's just bloat.
     
  14. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Because MSV2 completely changes a trooper's functional applications from MSV1, and she was advertised (and people preordered an expensive tournament pack for) as filling the role of an MSV2 trooper.

    She may have a boatload of skills, but that in itself isn't necessarily powercreep. Plenty of troopers have three lines of skills.
     
    #94 Weathercock, Sep 20, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
    HokutoAndy and Abrilete like this.
  15. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah, she is specialist, excelent in CC, has incredible mobility, stealth, NCO, dodge on 18 and almost cost of default shang ji with MR. And players are still unhappy, cause she is not ignoring all memetism mods and cant freely shot trough the smoke. Isn't it too greedy?
     
  16. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    Can we plz keep the YuJing salt in their Subforum? I think one thread about a lying, greedy company treating their costumers like idiots and lamenting about the downgrade of a released unit is enough.
    Everyone who needs more of all that, i am happy to hand several links to warhammer-Forums.
     
  17. HokutoAndy

    HokutoAndy Member

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    hey dude you're posting this a day after you went over to the yu jing forum to mock people over the Bixie stat change.... and this long ass salt thread was started by you in the first place.

    Is Anubis the only whiner allowed on here? Have some self awareness.
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    You ever notice that almost every Character released these days, especially Aristeia! crossovers, has a Specialist Skill, almost untouchable CC, boosted mobility and deployment options, frequently improves Order pools, gets bonus durability from skills and are costed shockingly cheap compared to basic Heavy Infantry? Maybe it's less that YJ are being whiners, and more CB really needing to cool it with the Character design because they've set the baseline at "mini-Achilles".
     
  19. anubis

    anubis sarcastic exaggerator

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    "mock people over Bixie"? Thats a interesting read of my only comment in that Forum, where i mostly adress the people referencing CB as a diabolical companie, their mouths wattering with greed and "treating their costumers like Idiots", together with a summary of changes and cancelations of variouse units and the aknowledging, that she recived a downgrade, but that does not make her useless imho.
    Non-the-less my point stands: this thread is not the right space for this.

    But i take the "Starting the salt in the yuJing forum by a single post (#57)" as an Achivement.
     
    #99 anubis, Sep 22, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  20. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I dont thik so, not all aristos look broken. Bill can only shoot and not so tough, Shona only good at cc, Parvati cool support with high cost, Taowu look good but he is only in those armies that needed a buff.

    If you mean soldier of fortune are overpowered, so I even dont know what to say. They are the almost worst aristos and exist in 1 army, where is no cheap orders and your best shooter is bolt, so I think you are just trolling us)
     
    burlesford likes this.
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