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New FAQ - Stealth

Discussion in 'Rules' started by RobertShepherd, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. BLOODGOD

    BLOODGOD Vampire Hunter

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    It's still a short movement skill, you can definitely discover/discover against two different targets.
     
  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Wait weren't you on a stance that if stealth only prevents from "triggering" an ARO, and if it was triggered by someone else who was also activated on a order AROing trooper can still target the "stealth" guy ?

    If so then, I must say sorry. I've had to misremember something.
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This. This ruling just pushes it in an unnecessary direction.
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    No, that's the exact opposite of what I'd been saying.
     
  5. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    What this means is that a stealth unit does not grant AROs as normal if they attack a model in base to base contact with a CC Attack because there was a valid target for AROs at the first check to begin with.

    Because there was a target to begin with this part of the rules does not apply, correct? If that is so the rule below will only apply during a second check, correct? This part of the rule does not wind back the clock so to speak and create a "first check". When this rule applies it will always be a "Second check". Have I got this?
    • However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO.
     
  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    The Second Check happens if and only if there was nothing giving you the possibility to declare an ARO during the First Check.
    Here the Sakiel in you ZoC gives you an ARO at the First Check while Makauls don't due to Stealth and Zero Vis zone interaction. You HAVE TO take it now against the Sakiel or forfeit any ARO for the entire order.
    Then you take a spear in the face.
     
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  7. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    In detail:
    1. The Triad activates, with the two Makaul moving into base contact, and all three active troopers outside line of Fire.
    2. The enemy trooper is granted an ARO by the Sakiel that is in Zone of Control. Due to Stealth, the Makauls have not triggered AROs, even though they have reached base contact. If the enemy trooper chooses not to ARO, they give up their sole chance to declare an ARO.
    3. Makaul Team Leader declares CC Attack. If no other ARO had been generated, the enemy trooper would now be able to react normally.
     
  8. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    I'm learning. It seems that this system of rules is heavily designed around context to understand it. Trying to understand the rules at face value makes things difficult.

    Now I understand the context around this rule a little better in this situation.
     
  9. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Teaching this game is way way easier with examples and actual miniatures and terrain – you can only try to describe something so visual over a forum post
     
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  10. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I only have me with the rule books and these forums to learn from. I don't have anyone that can teach me this game in my area.
     
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  11. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I'm missing something obvious but can you choose not to ARO against the Sakiel and still get a reaction against Makaul?

    EDIT: NVM I can't read.
     
    ijw likes this.
  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    It's weird but I dont mind the stealth changes as much as I detested the lof ones. The reason for this is that I can find 2 ways to exploit this. In cc or hacking by the active player.

    I have found that most times if a skilled cc specialist reaches a target, the other thing is dead. In a competent fight out it becomes dicey, which this removes, but that I find less likely.

    For hacking, this is a little less stomachable. That said, because of active person is stronger anyway, this is a nerf to having a repeater far forward but having a stealthed link with hacker get in range of repeater seems less occurring. if this occurs, then that linked hacker can kill every enemy hacker on the table uncontested, which is a bit much. And this is quite obscene in transmission matrix, which makes that scenario really bad.

    But these both are far less abusable to me than a rodok super jumping straight up and shooting the table uncontested. This feels more like idle without stealth and walk uncontested around a corner. The first I hate with my whole being, the latter I do every chance I get. I haven't tried it yet in game, but feels more acceptable.
     
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  13. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    What makes Rodok uncontested in with super jump?
     
  14. Whyrocknodie

    Whyrocknodie Well-Known Member

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    Before this FAQ, if you could draw a LOF from your super-jumping Rodok to the back of a cylinder over a wall without drawing LOF to the front of that cylinder, the target would get no ARO and you could shoot them with a Normal roll.
     
  15. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you'd be basically tossing nades / ammo behind their collar on their backs w/o them seeing you yet :D
     
  16. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    Does this ruling also mean that if a fireteam walks around a corner doing a move movei cannot hold the aro to shoot someone that i didnt see during the first part of the move? If so this is a pretty big nerf to hidden deployment AROs
     
  17. Whyrocknodie

    Whyrocknodie Well-Known Member

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    You've never been able to do that. Even if they were markers, you would have to place your camo marker on the board if you wanted to Delay from hidden deployment.
     
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  18. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean and why you would not be able to, please explain / include a tactical drawing? :)
     
  19. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    my understanding of the rules previously was that each member of a fireteam or coordinated order provoked their own AROs. so i could have a guy in hidden deployment, and if he sees part of a fireteam move out from around a corner, i can keep him there. if the opponent did a second move, resulting in the hidden deployment guy gaining LoF to a unit that he couldn't see during the first part of the move, the hidden deployment guy could choose to take an aro then, against a unit that had not provided an aro previously.
    mebbe i was misunderstanding the way the teams work, but i thought this

    from aro:
    "If, by declaring the second Short Skill of its Order, the active trooper gives ARO to enemy troopers that did not have ARO against the first Short Skill, then those enemy troopers can declare their AROs."

    allowed this situation
     
  20. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteams_in_the_Active_Turn

    A Fireteam grants a single ARO to each enemy trooper within LoF or ZoC.
    So, each enemy trooper will be able to declare a single ARO against only one of the Fireteam members who are in their LoF or ZoC.



    So if you don't ARO against the Fireteam with the first opportunity, you lose the ability to ARO against the Fireteam for that order.
     
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