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Nanopulsars...

Discussion in 'Rules' started by DeepThought, Apr 25, 2019.

?

You tell me: Is the Nanopulser "Silent" or not?

  1. Yes, without a doubt, and the rules show this.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes, I think so. The Soft description corroborates this.

    2.4%
  3. No, I think not. There is no 'silence' keyword save in the soft description.

    42.9%
  4. No. Undoubtedly. The rules show this.

    54.8%
  1. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    Mahtamori, you may well have made some of the most intelligent remarks I've ever encountered in the forum. I was reviewing the rules myself for this purpose and your description is well thought out and spoken. I agree, with the Zone of Control being not much larger than the nanopulser range, it does nullify most of its application as a stealth weapon, as one would need the stealth attribute to use it effectively.

    This seems like sound reasoning. A screaming victim is cause for alarm, but goes nowhere toward spotting your enemy's firing position or "sniffing the poo" as the marines say. I wrote this question up in the forum for that very reason, for while it seems a weapon dynamic with enormous potential- it only works for a narrow set of very-avoidable circumstances, making it your opponent's fault for providing such a wide opening.

    I'm glad to see I'm not alone in this notion. Nothing so tires me as naysayers who refuse to even consider both sides. I recognize the rules in their current form don't 'support' the idea, but that doesn't make it an invalid thing to consider, particularly when you weigh ColBrook's observation that the weapon predates the 'silence' attribute, and may just sit among the tiny fixes Corvus & Co. have yet to catch and make.
     
    #21 DeepThought, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's also worth noting that a Knife is silent, and that the Silent trait will work even though the defending model attempts to protect itself with a non-silent weapon such as an EXP CCW (because when being "backstabbed", you're not prevented from declaring CC Attack). Including if the Berserk (and thus normal rolls) is involved.
     
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  3. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a nanopulser is just as silent as a monofilament sword?
    "Silent" is relative...
     
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  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Quite a few Knights have nanopulser (Santiagos+Joan). So if you sneak around corner you could actually double nanopulse someone without their ARO.
     
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  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Or take Spiral corps SpecOp and triple nanopulse someone without ARO (if Nanopulsers had Silent).
     
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I tried to add a nanopulser to specops already having one (Deva, for example) and the system would not let me (it becomes an empty selection), dunno if they changed it because it was an error, or it is not allowed to get extras of weapons you have already to prevent extra Burst.
     
  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So they made Nanopulser available to Aleph although both of Aleph Spec-OP have native Nanopulsers ?

    Then they prohibited 2nd weapon take ?

    Seems like great design (and wasted slot for Aleph).
     
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  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    @xagroth it might be a result of SpecOP applet prohibiting you form taking (due to spec) 2 same weapons (they dont care if you have had natively one or tried to take 2 SMGs). So probably because of this the algorithm detects you already have a nanopulser and prevents you from taking it (although you have not yet taken it).

    So instead checking the unit "inventory" for "doubles of item" it should only check "Spec-OP slots" for doubles.

    This is also not perferct due to DEVA having natively NWI and option to take another NWI.....

    (plot Twist the algoritm is stupid, it actually allows you take a NWI on DEVA xD)
     
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  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The wonders of development on the go. Yesterday I managed to discover a bug in which the name of a GIT repository containing an "&" forced the script to treat whatever was after the & as a command...
    At least it was not named "Joy&Remove" (it was whatevsA&R, but fortunately "R" was not aliased to Remove XD)
     
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    xD

    Well our people messed up a scripts a bit and you cannot use one of the words in the branch name otherwise the git gate guard will reject your branch :P
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if you're trying to supplement my point or if you're trying to make an argument to the effect of me being wrong that there are "many" units with Nanopulser and no Stealth.
    For reference: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/nanopulsars.28285/#post-245042

    You only missed the Seraph and Black Friar (if we count those as Knights), and those two do not have Stealth. That doesn't make a lot of knights with Nanopulser and 3 of 5 Pan-O Nanopulser equipped models do not have Stealth - and that's not counting the two mercs who has Nanopulser... but not Stealth. So... yeah: most Pan-O models with Nanopulser do not have Stealth.
    Except basically every Pan-O list will have at least female model with Nanopulser and Stealth. (That's an exaggregation, don't bother linking lists without the re-Frenchie)
     
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  12. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    Checked the Aleph Spec Ops, and Nanopulsers come standard. I don't know if it came across in your post, so I'm going to risk restating it. The option doesn't let you pick it because they're already equipped. I'm not sure why they leave it on the list if its a standard weapon, but that's what you were running into. What gets me is with their last update, they got rid of all forms of martial arts from the list (so no stealth).
    So with that in mind... are you pondering whether a spec ops can use DUAL nanopulsers?
     
    #32 DeepThought, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well it was more about that right now default LT for MO is Santiago (nanopulser) or Joan (nanopulser) ;)
     
  14. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Only for some factions, some other can take MA3 (or NBW)
     
  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Nah, the problem is that you can add NWI to the Deva with no additional effect but paying the 8XP. Or that you can burn 10 points to get the Deva's PB to 12 and 2 to get Bioinmunity (15 in cover. hooo-rah)

    Also, YJ's Specops can use MA4. Muyib's Specops can't get a Panzerfaust added (he has one already), etc... So I guess you cannot equip a SpecOps with a weapon he already has.
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The Spec-Op rules in Daedalus' Fall forbid doubling up on weapons you already have.

    They don't forbid doubling up on skills, but having a skill twice doesn't do anything so I guess they don't technically need to deny it.
     
    #36 colbrook, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  17. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    So putting one last wrap-up post on this thread before it completely stagnates (if it hasn't already), but I think we've established one thing: The fan-base would appreciate it if Corvus & Co. would kindly consider either:
    A) making nanopulsers silent (as it seems the balance change would not to be huge, but not insignificant either)- or
    B) appropriately editing the soft-text of nanopulsers to match the rules.

    I know in my own case, while I favor the former option, the latter would not be tragic to me, as a description along the lines of this would be awesome:

    "A weapon no one sees coming until the victim is enveloped in a thousand tiny blue/violet ember-like particles working their way to the weak points and pulverizing their target into oblivion"
     
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  18. Scribbler

    Scribbler Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I doubt that anyone is going to edit the fluff blurb as to the extent of my knowledge it has never happened before, so I would lean towards option A being more likely. However, given that nanopulsers aren't totally broken as they are and giving them silent might alarm a lot of players (even though I don't think the change would be overpowering), I don't expect either to happen.

    I am curious, though, to try it out in a homebrew ruleset. I've had some ideas floating around in my head for a while now, and I think it would be cool to try write them up and try them out.

    EDIT: Totally unrelated and irrelevant: am I the only one who noticed that the thread title is spelled nanoPULSAR, like a neutron star?
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the big reason.

    Even the Ariadna mission had 2050s tech when they left, so I would assume Nanotech warning systems were in play, or were very quickly supplied by Nomads and Haqq after Recontact.



    Agreed.


    But that's the reason why.


    A Small Teardrop is just slightly longer than 8" (~8.25"), it is just barely possible to Nanopulse someone from outside ZOC.


    "No man I stabbed in the back ever made a sound."
    Sir Christopher Lee, CBE CStJ, former member of the Special Operations Executive, during the filming of the Lord of the Rings movies.



    Very much so!

    Remember, the USA was destroyed in a Gray Goo scenario in the Infinity setting, so you'd better believe that active Nano being detected would set off ALL the alarms.

    [​IMG]


    Go measure your Small Teardrop template again, it's just slightly longer than 8", so if you are *very* good (or lucky) at judging distances, you can Nanopulse someone from outside their ZOC.



    There are several issues with the SpecOps weapons, equipment, and skill tables. That is one of them.

    They also prohibited second equipment take, and left a Cube as one of the options in the YJ tables.



    I've seen unit fluff blurbs change once that I remember, the Jotum got a new fluff blurb when the model came out. OTOH, the Daofei got dropped from Invincible Army, even though it's fluff explicitly makes it part of IA. So I'm not holding my breath for this one.
     
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  20. Gunmage

    Gunmage Well-Known Member

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    ...wait, what? I thought all the old superpowers just went bankrupt due to Ariadna colonization project falling through.