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N4: Unresolved rules questions

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Mahtamori, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The point is that the original question is now moot, so updating it could do with updating so people aren't confused into thinking it's a live issue : "Unresolved; original question is now moot as an update to Army changed the profile and no other profiles have this issue."

    Edit: or rather, after reviewing the thread, the remaining question actually seems to be "Does Double Shot work in ARO?"

    I mean, you could add the "how does a Marker state Repeater work?" in as "Unresolved" - but that's relatively unhelpful.

    I've seen people already citing this thread as a good list for TOs to provisionally answer in tournament packs, so helping them out by limiting the questions they need to answer is useful.
     
    #21 inane.imp, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Mechanically it is very clear that the Yan Huo neuro profile has B2 in active and B1 in reactive if you actually go through the rules step for step, because burst bonuses only apply during the active turn and in this case all they have done is set the trigger of it when you're using the Neurocinetics skill - which you are forced to use every time a BS Attack is declared. So while the question itself is more a "hey, CB, thanks for making your intent clearer, but you haven't actually fixed it", the issue is perhaps not big enough to merit being in this thread because people won't (presumably) be playing it by the book anyway.
    Like Zewrath wrote in the thread itself, they're doing themselves a disfavour of complicating this profile that's actually quite crap. I set it as least concern level because of both that I don't think people will play it contrary to intent and because no one will actually be using the profile more than like... once. At most.

    On the Repeater, I don't think the functionality was ever all that unclear, it was just a bollocks interaction that felt unfair.

    Edit: funnily enough, it was this particular question that made me start listing topics that are unresolved because it annoys me how they made a non-fix :p
     
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  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    *looks meaingfully at Holo'd KHDs*

    Yeah.. I see what you mean about interactions that feel unfair. :P
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just declare Trinity on everything. :smiling_imp:
     
  5. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Some clarification on how Deactivators work vs deployables that have been triggered would be nice.
    (ie. can you Deactivate a mine or madtrap in the same order as triggering them, and in doing so avoid being hit by them)
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Ask the question in a separate thread, but the answer is "No, you can't".
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Added questions regarding leaning over the edge of a building and one question regarding Guard and multiple CC participants. Added an unconfirmed answer to the squeeze through question and a follow up question to it. Added related question regarding the skill details specifications with regards to effects with sub-requirements such as "when is White Noise area declared?".
     
    #27 Mahtamori, Nov 30, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    inane.imp, toadchild and Daniel Darko like this.
  8. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Thank you. Your list is very helpful. You are doing a great job. :+1:
     
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  9. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    There was a small issue with protheion that came up; the rules reading looks like coup de grace sends the target straight to dead, bypassing inflicting wounds, and therefore not healing the user. However, the examples in the rules show it being used to heal off of a coup de grace.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, IJW posted in that thread that it looked like it was mechanically correct that Protheion wouldn't allow you to munch on units using straight-to-dead mechanics, so I didn't add it to the thread as it has an answer immediately. Basically, I want to try and limit this to stuff that is uncertain, and not stuff that has an answer already or stuff that's "wouldn't it be better if" (because boy could I fill a list like that pronto)
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I've added two more questions to the solved section; one regarding what you need to declare when using NCO and another regarding the long standing topic of vaulting technicalities.

    Should any of these answers make it to a persistent document (i.e. the FAQ), I'll probably remove the answers fully.
     
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The NCO answer raised another question: do you need to declare the use of any skill that is not listed as Private Information (ie Minelayer)?

    I asked it in the NCO thread.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    While that's a good question, I do think that Deployment Skills, particularly Minelayer and Decoy break and lose most value if they are considered skills that are declared. On the balance of things I'm not sure such a question is more than academic, unless you disagree?
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Minelayer is an Optional skill, NCO is an automatic skill.

    IJW is saying he advises people to declare the use of a Automatic skills while in a Marker state, why would this not also apply to Optional skills in a Marker state: arguably because Deployment skills are inherently private, but that's not based on anything.

    Notably you effectively need to declare the use of Infiltration (+3 PH) because you need to declare the TN, so there's potentially precedence.

    I think the point I should be making is more that the advice he provided in that answer isn't a complete solution, it's advice. He's good about making the distinction between advice and an answer. Without dealing with the questions his advice answers it's not really solution.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    We could take this back to the other thread, but the +6 part of Infiltration (+6) is a MOD while the skill you use is "Infiltration" so you wouldn't need to reveal that you're rolling +3 instead of the usual -3 - though a regular success on 14 makes it pretty obvious it's an Oniwaban and not a Ninja so to speak.
    That said, we can add Infiltration to the list that basically breaks if Deployment Skills are declared, though it is Hidden Deployment if the Infiltrating unit has it that it partially breaks.

    True. I'll update to show that the answer is advice. I'll keep it in the solved list, though, owing to the nature of everything in here being unofficial.
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Difficult Terrain and Moving Prone needs updating, because Dodge makes it clear that "bonuses" are halved.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?threads/38633/

    So it seems like the formula is actually:
    (Move value + Bonuses)/(1 or 2 if Prone) + Penalties.

    Unless we're arguing that Moving Prone bonuses from Terrain are treated differently to Dodging Prone bonuses from Dodge (+x")...
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Updated the question, though I do not quite see what you mean. The thread seems to have solved itself?
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The solution in the second thread is different to the solution in the first thread.

    The problems are different, but - I'd argue - only semantically so. If Dodging Prone halves the bonuses then Moving Prone should half the bonuses. Right?
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They are not different? My initial short-hand answer was unclear, however. I've updated it to be more verbose in the examples given.
    I'm gonna be cheeky enough to move that question to solved. I think the thread you linked hashed Dodging out sufficiently that there should be no issue giving a RAW.
    Basically, if you're crawling around as an X-2 MOV unit, just Dodge as second skill. 2" to 3" movement is far greater than a 0" Move Short skill movement...
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    This "Trooper with 4-4 and Terrain (Multi) is 2-2 while prone and 1,5-1 while prone in terrain." should be 2.5 - 2. Troopers with an applicable Terrain skills don't suffer the penalty.

    //

    My point is more that it's not Multiplication / Division before addition / subtraction. It's apply bonuses, divide for Prone, apply penalties: in that order. That's the conclusion of the second thread.
     
    #40 inane.imp, Dec 16, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
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