Well ... then everything else would have to become extremely cheap. Su-Jian with its 8-2 movement, ARM 5 and essentially 4 wounds is extremely good. I doubt 4 or 5 points would stop someone from using it. For me, it smells like powercreep
The funny thing with Kuang Shi is that they're fairly overpriced as it is. What I mean with this is that they're barely getting any discounts at all from Impetuous because that'd put them deep into the "points squish" that happens below ~6 points, so unlike most "warbands" I don't see Kuang Shi get affected too much by points re-allocations nor the removal of Extreme Impetuous - unless they also get a deeper re-design. Now, what they could do to really shake up the ISS meta in regards to Kuang Shi is to, say... put the Control Device on the Spitfire Celestial Guard instead. Yan Huo would be lower end of 45. Note that the double Missile Launcher which in N3 is only 1 points below the MHMG is 4 points while the rest of Yan Huo profiles are 4,5? LI don't seem to be altered from what we've seen so far. What's 11 points now should be 11 points in N4, or close enough to it. They're indirectly nerfed, though, as the premium cost profiles are going down and Tactical Window will make space slightly more premium in a force.
That's interesting, I find the Hac Tao is the reason I never take the Guijia. I made an IA list that was pretty much a life support system for a Hac Tao HMG and Rui shi and he was pretty terrifying. I haven't had a chance to run the same list subbing the Hac Tao for a Mowang yet thanks to the restrictions on movement. I wonder if Mowang will get cheaper.
I guess it comes down to how we define "power creep?" It is usually defined as "the situation where updates to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered." N4 changes seems like the opposite of "power creep" as older units are generally getting improved versus the addition of new "OP" units. Now I agree it looks like premium units already great will get better. But it also looks like mediocre units are improving as well. Just the basic general changes have improved the Guija and made it hopefully more viable. We only have 15 more days
Hac Tao has always performed well for me when I fielded him, but not for the 70 points they cost, but the rest of the list is mostly hot garbage because they require so much investment that you might just tap-tap-concede when it falls to one of their hard-counters (which for the Hac Tao being crits or interestingly enough TAGs). I have made an IA list that I was fairly happy with that had a Mowang and a Guijia in it, I linked it in a different thread, where the mindset you need for it to work is "the Guijia is expendable, protect the Mowang". Basically pretend the Guijia is a suicide bomber, run it in to the enemy and when it eats dirt jump the pilot out and burn something valuable.
Heavy pistol has shock ammo, relevant for certain unit types. It also covers the 0-8" band on the spitfire profile. It's less about the Su Jian but more a global sign that the overpriced stats like ARM and BTS are coming down which has generally been a plague on more expensive models. This is less relevant now with the 15 order cap, but it's one of the main things people were paying attention to as we moved towards N4 where most people were hoping the more expensive models were going to come down in price a bit while the cheap spam would remain the same, or even get a little more expensive.
You think they're hand adjusting stuff or there's an internal multiplier for 2+ wound models that's come down?
I'm not able to pull any conclusions that detailed. From my guts feeling, it doesn't seem to correlate to any particular stat. Assuming C1 points are representative as long as there are no disabled skills, it seems Jujak is getting real cheap compared to Zuyong while Daofei and Sheeskin do not seem to be getting cheaper. I can't quite make straight of it atm, so to me it seems... kinda hand-adjusted? Or maybe more like a tiered points adjustment where some abilities gets you excluded from reductions. In either case, let's wait for more profiles. I'm most hoping for a no-frills melee profile to be spoiled so we can see if there's a melee-specific discount or not.
The Daofei didn't get a price cut, but its CC also went up. I'm guessing that "improvement" was given specifically to keep his point cost in a specific range.
Could also be that Infiltration or camo (or those skills on 2W/High BS platforms) got a cost increase.
Yes, me too. Because right now I don't see, how CB will make Close Combat work when every shotgun is a DTW as well. No FtF means its suicide to go into Close Combat with almost anything. In N3 CC wasn't worth it's orders most of the time, I am curious if this is going to change in N4. Right now it doesn't look like it will.
Active turn dodging around a corner into CC is going to be legit, especially for troopers with increased Dodge range. Then there's the philosophical question of whether charging a trooper with a shotgun, flamethrower, etc, should ever be a good idea...
I would not be surprised if it will be expected that you will have to dodge into combat to get in safely. I also would not be surprised if Obiwaban and ninjas finally get smoke grenades.
Yeah, sure, the average PH for melee units is about 14, but in this faction it's just barely over 11... (Not that I think much will change when it comes to melee and Yu Jing, just that the community-branded solution "just dodge" simply doesn't seem to be very reliable when it's Yu Jing doing it)
Your opponent can also dodge as an ARO in ZoC, so you will be hoping they fuck up a normal roll or you're going to dodge around a corner and then be left standing in the open when you try to activate again. RAW melee is actually going to get hard to achieve in the next edition if you don't have stealth because people are going to start dodging away from you as you try to get close (or if you're super unlucky they might manage to dodge to the corner you're trying to approach before you get there and set up with an ARO to shoot you next order). The N3 common trick of toss a smoke at the corner and then walk into CC is also going to be useless, as the enemy can now dodge even if you miss them with the smoke template. On one hand being partially in smoke and being invisible and fighting people in melee was kinda silly, on the other hand it's pretty hard to make CC without doing this shit so I don't know how I feel overall.
They will be at -3. But then I'm also if the opinion that walking up in full view of someone with a shotgun and trying to stab then in the face should rarely be a viable tactic.
When discussing Dodging round a corner into CC, remember that all Rolls are made, then everyone decides where to move with their Dodge movement. https://infinitythewiki.com/index.php?title=Dodge
Active turn dodge movement will really help CC units. Level 4 MA no longer giving burst bonus though seems rough though. Looking at a lot of Starmada units, I question how even an Oniwaban will be able to CC them unless they get level 5 now.
