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N4 killed Onyx?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Sergei Simonov, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Right, but we're not comparing Burst 2 to N3 MA3, we're comparing Burst 2 to N4 MA4, where you're getting the Damage bonus as well. As far as I can work out, N4 MA4 is better than B2 against non-CC units and against other CC specialists.
     
  2. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    How good is protheion? I don't have the book and army 7 doesn't seem to link to it

    If Samaritans can run around ninja star-ing people on 27s with 'mimetism', they are nothing short of spectacular.
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    For each wound inflicted with CC Attack trooper with Protheion gains a wound of his own, up to two over his original # of wounds.

    It works with MA and CCWs, so MA4 DA CCW with Protheion is pretty damn scary.
     
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  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Protheion is in CodeOne already: https://infinitythewiki.com/index.php?title=Protheion

    Short version - it can be combined with CCWs now, and no longer has it's own chart - instead the unit will have some level of Martial Arts.

    So a Samaritan with Protheion, MA4 to get +3 CC, -3 to the opponent and +3 PH for Damage, and a DA CCW to cause two Saving Rolls is noticeably scarier than in N3, even with Burst 1. If you crit (CC27 = 35% chance*) that's three Saving Rolls against Damage 15...


    EDIT CC27 gives a 40% chance of a crit.
     
    #24 ijw, Sep 25, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Plus, if you're fighting something with Structure, the Samaritan now has MA4 to get +3/-3 with the Vorpal CCW.
     
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  6. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Could you post a Samaritan list? I wouldn't know where to start with Onyx.

    I love CC murder machines in this game, would love to give this one a go
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    This is from N3, so obviously needs a lot of changes for N4, I’m not sure I can get it back up to 300pt without adding Ko Dali or similar to the Unidron Core.

    [​IMG] Onyx Contact Force - TacAware (300/300 | 5.5/6)

    Group #1 | 10 Models | [​IMG] 10 [​IMG] 0 [​IMG] 0

    [​IMG] Umbra Samaritan Breaker Combi | Breaker Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse, Pistol / Vorpal CCW (40)
    [​IMG] Xeodron MULTI Rifle | MULTI Rifle, Blitzen, Heavy Pistol (62)
    [​IMG] Xeodron Red Fury | Red Fury, Blitzen, Heavy Pistol (63)
    [​IMG] Nexus Hacker Lieutenant | EI Hacking Device, Nullifier, Lieutenant, Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (24)
    [​IMG] Unidron Observer | Forward Observer, Plasma Carbine, Pistol / Electric Pulse (15)
    [​IMG] Unidron K1 TinBot | TinBot A (Deflector L1), K1 Combi Rifle, Pistol / Electric Pulse (17)
    [​IMG] Unidron Missile Launcher | Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun, Pistol / Electric Pulse (20)
    [​IMG] Unidron Plasma Sniper Rifle | Plasma Sniper Rifle, Pistol / Electric Pulse (24)
    [​IMG] Med-Tech Combi | Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Pistol / Knife (23)
    [​IMG] Slave Drone Servant | Electric Pulse (3)
    [​IMG] Ikadron Baggage | Baggage, Repeater, Light Flamethrower (2), Flash Pulse, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9)

    [​IMG] Open in MayaNet

    Renowned locally for including 13 types of Special Ammunition (if you included Protheion), with the only Normal ammo being 7 Pistols and 2 Combi Rifles.
     
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  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    This also worked reasonably well, with the Rodok Core making it possible to use the Samaritan LT aggressively without worrying too much about Loss of Lieutenant. Rodok price increases would make it harder in N4, but Nourkias LT would be a straight swap for the Samaritan, freeing up some SWC.

    [​IMG] Onyx Contact Force - Untitled Roster (300/300 | 6/6)

    Group #1 | 9 Models | [​IMG] 9 [​IMG] 0 [​IMG] 0

    [​IMG] Umbra Samaritan Spitfire Lieutenant | Lieutenant, Spitfire, Flash Pulse, Pistol / Vorpal CCW (44)
    [​IMG] Rodok HMG | HMG, Pistol / Knife (27)
    [​IMG] Rodok Boarding Shotgun | Antipersonnel Mines, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / Knife (19)
    [​IMG] Rodok Boarding Shotgun | Antipersonnel Mines, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / Knife (19)
    [​IMG] Rodok Paramedic | Paramedic, MediKit, Antipersonnel Mines, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / Knife (21)
    [​IMG] Rodok Paramedic | Paramedic, MediKit, Antipersonnel Mines, Boarding Shotgun, Pistol / Knife (21)
    [​IMG] Ikadron Baggage | Baggage, Repeater, Light Flamethrower (2), Flash Pulse, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9)
    [​IMG] Ikadron Baggage | Baggage, Repeater, Light Flamethrower (2), Flash Pulse, Pistol / Electric Pulse (9)
    [​IMG] Ímetron AI Beacon | (4)

    Group #2 | 5 Models | [​IMG] 5 [​IMG] 0 [​IMG] 0

    [​IMG] Malignos Observer | Forward Observer, Antipersonnel Mines, Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (36)
    [​IMG] Noctifer Missile Launcher | Missile Launcher, Assault Pistol / Knife (32)
    [​IMG] Noctifer Missile Launcher | Missile Launcher, Assault Pistol / Knife (32)
    [​IMG] Bit Killer Hacker | Deployable Repeater, Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Pistol / Knife (19)
    [​IMG] Kiss! | Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse
    [​IMG] R-Drone Repeater | Flash Pulse / Electric Pulse (8)

    [​IMG] Open in MayaNet
     
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  9. ers

    ers New Member

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    Nourkias + 2 Xeodrons = legal haris?
     
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Unfortunately not, because although Nourkias counts as a Samaritan, he doesn’t have the Haris Special Skill, and at least one Trooper needs the Skill when you form the Fireteam. :-(
     
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  11. ers

    ers New Member

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    This update hurts my heart.
     
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  12. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    Same here ers. I'm looking at a bunch of guys on here saying my Legate / Samaritan that dies to one sniper hit is the new way forward with Onyx. (Cybermask tax?) Mean while I'm looking at my mates imperial service and Military orders and just wondering what the hell happened? I feel let down to be honest.
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    It's funny you should mention MO, our general first expression is that MO got the s*** end of the stick in this update.

    And if your Umbra dies to a sniper, something went wrong. You don't attack a sniper with a unit best suited for CC and CQB. And if the sniper attacks it in active, it wasn't hidden well enough. Onyx has tools to deal with long range threats, you eliminate them, and then exploit the opening pushing the Umbra through.
     
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  14. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    The last three games I've had I've gone up against 1 TO sniper/Rocket in each game. Anecdotal I know but enough to smoke these paper thin dudes piece of cake, if it's not that it's camo T1 snipers. There always seems an answer to my Samaritans as they just die so easily and they have such a big target on their backs as they're sooo squishy and expensive man, 40points at Arm1 1W, jesus. I'm not 100% giving up on them as I have three of the buggers painted and you boys are all saying they're the muts nuts, so there must be some use there, I'll persevere but I'm still not seeing it.

    no smoke, no MSV & no real buff. I compare it to the buffs I'm seeing on Joan of Arc? The buffs on Hsiens, Wu Mings, Kanrens, Crane Ranks, New Divas to ISS, Hospittalers, Santiago's And lets not forget the mind blowing points drop on Tikbalangs!!!! That's just scanning it, and what did we get...? Forgotten about mate.
     
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  15. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Why the bleeping bleep would you be putting a Samaritan up against a TO Sniper or ML, or a Cateran or similar? That's what linked Rodok HMGs, linked Unidron Plasma Snipers and Maakrep HMGs are for!
     
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  16. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    Yea the bleeping bleep problem with TO is you don't know it's there! :joy:
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Ah, OK. Even with the reduced cost of TO Snipers in N4, they're still about 10% of somebody's force so it's a big enough gap in what they've deployed to know that there's a TO or AD Trooper somewhere.

    Plus, even a Noctifer is only on less than even odds of taking down a Samaritan in ARO, thanks to PH15 for Dodging, and assuming the Noctifer is in optimal >24" range, which usually means it's limited to 2-3 possible locations on the table, which again helps with guessing where it might be.

    I haven't confirmed this with CB, but my assumption for the Samaritans 'only' dropping by about 9% in cost is because they got much better in CC, and their favoured targets (high ARM, multi-Wound, multi-STR Troopers) will be much more common.

    And because active turn Dodge movement makes their 'hyperdynamics + kinematika' Skills noticeably more useful in N4. 75% chance of moving 10" per Order is a big thing, especially when 4" of Dodge movement doesn't generate AROs. This also makes it surprisingly easy for the Samaritan to get into combat without being shot at, if anyone is stupid enough to hide near a corner.
     
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  18. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    Yea I really like that dodge move you've mentioned but if they're dodging around a corner does the actual dodge move not generate an ARO, as you're entering los?

    Ok I know I'm being a Debbie Downer but...

    My problem with these guys will always be how far they have to stick their neck out to achieve anything. It's not like they have the totally mental toughness of McMurrough or Teutonic/montesa/Justice/Magistar Knights, or the throw away points off the many CC based nutty units out there. These guys are an expensive situational glass cannon. I think getting their points worth is really hard, with lack of smoke or MSV.

    If you're asking CB questions can you include why the Rodok B:Shotty has gone up 4 points?

    So a link that used to costs 103 with an HMG now comes in at a whopping 122.

    Blrgh, just venting. I'm sure it will be fine with my auto include Xeodrons And EVOs and still obvious Lt. I'm just a bit gutted that in all this time our roster hasn't changed bar three dudes, was this not a great opportunity to add some more flavour?
     
  19. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    So, I just played my 2nd game of N4 and used Onyx.

    The general reduction in SWC is a big boost.

    The suryat haris with suryats worth taking and a wildcard kerr nau also great. Lt2 and the msv1 rockets were great.

    Nourikas was a monster, ate a specialist next to an objective, mono boomeranged the enemy HI LT and held on to the only supply box at the end of the game.

    The second Sammy in the rodok team did some spitfiring but died to a muhktar red fury.

    The rodoks Hmg did well but the rodoks were generally meh, not passing a single save will do that. The +4 cc, heavy pistol and +2 2nd movement and nerf of super jump don't seem worth the 4pt increase when compared to a general MI cost decrease.

    Overall some very good changes, just the rodoks Im not sure on.
     
  20. Morray

    Morray Well-Known Member

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    BOYS! Unidrons can go prone! Oooohhhh
     
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