Yu Jing's hacking ability is some of the worst in the game in factions actually capable of hacking, at least in N3. No pitchers, limited repeater access, no HD+ access, 0 advanced programs. They're only slightly ahead of Pan-O at least bringing better tin bots. O-12, Aleph, CA, Nomads, Haqq, Druze/FoCo/StarCo, are all way ahead of YJ in terms of hacking ability.
The Daofei's increased CC ability was likely done to keep its cost the same as it is in N3. For what he is, I get the feeling CB wants him kept at a fairly specific point level.
I'm throughly baffled at your "so hacking is gonna be more powerful, so that's good for Yu Jing, the supposed HI faction". That's some Olympic grade mental gymnastics right there, even saying YJ hacking is good, nice one. Also, what HI price cut?
So they want to give HI discounts but not really? Also, it seems the WB list on the report is 260 points having Dao Fei, Shang Ji and Jujak. If 10 points between 3 HI is all the discount HI gets i would say that's a pretty shitty pricecut and N4 is gonna be yet another emergency patch instead of addressing the system's problems
I have a feeling that many HI will get a points cut in N4, but the Daofei will probably not be one of them. They are an infiltrating multi-wound camo model with good stats who can bring an HMG, and frankly are doing just fine without any help.
Erm you? A Daofei is about as close to a Guija than a Bronze to Achilles. At whooping 25 ponts less and a bunch of points sunk into Total Immunity, C+ (and stuck at BS13 without MODs) the Bronze is far from a straightforward Fire Superiority piece. Last time I checked Crits don't Autowound anymore and a Tinbot + Fairy Dust suddenly negates a lot of hacking. With AHDs apparently getting reabsorbed into HDs all those shitty AHDs YJ has suddenly can ARO Spotlight unhackable targets and Isolate while buffing REMs and dropping Fairy Dust. Or alternatively we could just invent "true facts" about how YJ is screwed and has been since N1. You know... because Infiltrating Camo troops are far from a good combination and a pricecut to get better. Anyway, 5 hour stream tomorrow, we'll be smarter after.
Still wondering how your guesses about N4 mean YJ is good at hacking with 0 repeater coverage and how those same guesses don't mean HIs will be even more shafted than before. Go on, please. And again, that HI pricecut? Another guess?
I see what you misunderstood. No, look at the points and the points alone. The rest of what you write is quite a bit of hyperbole that I don't feel like I own considering that what you quote is very unfair to call balance whine. As for your hacking rant, it really is far too late to break down how hacking works to show you why what you said about Yu Jing being strong at hacking is wrong; suffice to say that I object to you calling what is one of Yu Jing's intentional faction weaknesses a strength. As a Yu Jing player you're meant to work around the fact that your hacking game is weak and that a lot of your troops are vulnerable to it, that is part of the challenge that makes playing Yu Jing rewarding. Now. I am worried that an element of the game that was screwing me over a lot during N3 was made stronger and more common. That should be understandable. I do not think, however, that this worry means I should stand responsible for what others post, so kindly direct that stuff towards someone else.
TBH I'm not a big fan of the Oblivion change, and I think it's likely a result of CB's very poor inhousing testing core group. It's going to have far further reaching changes than just Yu Jing. We're basically going to see a very big selection of hackable LT profiles completely invalidated due to just being hyper vulnerable to placing the army in LoL and very difficult to effectively protect as a player who is going second. Units like Sun Tze are basically going to be useless overnight due to being hyper vulnerable to getting stung by Oblivion through a pitcher while sitting in their DZ. To put it in perspective, if you pick a WIP13 BTS6 hackable LT, and your opponent goes first and throws a pitcher within 8" of your LT and then coordinates all of 3 WIP13 hackers with Oblivion, which could be anything from a midfield specialist to the retard you put at the back of the army to babysit a REM, even assuming they don't benefit from things like surprise attack You are looking at a 59.58% chance of getting put in Loss of LT. For how few orders and a command token that would take a hacking proficient army that is utterly fucked up on how high risk you're facing down by taking a hackable LT. They could gladly roll on those odds and run the risk of taking 1 or 2 uncontested hacking AROs on their guys for how game warping impact that play would have.
Gained AP ammo, and is now on the normal Hacking Devices. People are speculating AHDs have been removed as the HD now has both Oblivion and Carbonite, which were previously the territory of AHDs. You also no longer require an EVO hacker to use hacking programs in coordinated orders if the battle report can be trusted.
Ok. Thats a big change. However, isn't this a case of your opponent tayloring your list to hard counter an HI LT? Also, isn't this a FAR bigger issue in MO given their need to take a HI LT? All of Yu Jing has alternative and often better options for LT.
I don't think it's necessarily hard tailoring for hacking competent factions, especially if AHDs are being replaced. Nomads, CA, Haqq, Aleph could all wind up with 2 or 3 hackers as part of their normal set up plus pitchers. For a Yu Jing player? Yeah bit more a stretch, but for a faction that is good at and has wide spread hacking I don't think so. As far as a bigger issue for Yu Jing? Well if you're someone who never takes anything that isn't a Dao Ying, sure. But this is more an issue on the scope of less how does this change fuck X faction, and more this fucks X unit type game wide, which isn't a good thing for the game's health. Like I said in the previous post, this change has far wider ramifications than for just Yu Jing and I think CB's poor inhouse testing group is going to bite everyone in the ass here.
It's a good thing Yu Jing's best Lt is a camo marker. I really wouldn't worry about this too much. Take a look now at Yu Jing and see how many of our AHDs are in marker state or off the table; using vanilla as an example: - Tiger - Daofei - Hac Tao - Guilang - Ninjas - Kanren - Liu Xing - Zhencha Now, obviously not all of these are viable AHD choices. I can't imagine anyone would take a LX AHD unless for specific reasons, but do consider: 5 of those troops start at least 8" upfield. Two of them appear on the field right where you want them. We have two very strong attack remotes with repeaters who are often used to take and hold a zone. In particular, the Guilang AHD has mines, and the FO has a deployable repeater. You aren't losing anything by taking either of those profiles, particularly as HDs are getting cheaper. For KHDs, we've got some sleeper hits people might've overlooked. - Hac Tao - Ninja - Pheasant - Kanren - Haidao - Tian Gou - Ye Mao Again, not all of these are ideal options. Pheasant KHD is expensive and probably only really viable in niche ISS lists. But we still have that Ninja (who isn't just for pressing buttons on turn 3 here!), and both Kanrens and Tian Gou have the benefit of disguising themselves. I know we don't have HD+ or Barids or Kerr-Nau or anything, but Yu Jing's hackers are a lot better than you'd think. Tian Gou are Wip14 KHDs who can pretend to be anything else in your army; not just as dummy targets but potential traps as well. Give them a little credit. I also want to point out something Bostria said when White Banner came out: Sval and WB were both backported to N3 from N4. There will absolutely be changes to the army when N4 rolls around, so I think we can benefit from a little temperance from doomsaying until we have more concrete information. Yu Jing has it pretty good right now, I see no reason why that would change in N4.
I mean, even if it's not your Lt, it's still a crazy reliable and order efficient way to freely brick any expensive fire piece from across the table with little way to fight back.
Again, not looking at this as a Yu Jing issue. This is going to hurt the game all over. You like using Sun Tze? Bad news. You like playing vanilla Pan-O with Joan? You better hope you go first. This is going to very much hurt various hackable LT profiles to be point where some entire unit choices may be unplayable due to just being too vulnerable. At a bare minimum this is going to further hurt low order count armies by increasing the amount of protective bloat they likely have to bring to counter potential threats. That is less problematic as engineers exist, really it's just mild order drain in that case. In the case of an LT though, you get fucked before you can do anything about it.
This is a pretty relevant point and I went ahead and took a look at other factions who are likely the most vulnerable to these changes, and I don't believe it's as bad as you think. Even MO gets a KHD Santiago with a Tinbot who can protect Joan. I suspect the biggest knock-on effect is that it'll make TAG Lt profiles extremely vulnerable, but I think taking TAGs as your Lt is often a trap unless you're ALEPH or vanilla CA, and both those armies have incredibly strong killer hackers for protection.
Not everyone plays sectorials, linking Tinbots isn't achievable for everyone or their units even those who are sectorials (like JSA). Not to mention we really shouldn't be forcing these models into links as that just further constrains list building for no real benefit. I said it before and I'll say it again, CB's testing group is terrible and there is an extreme likelyhood this was not effectively tested.
I think it's too early to speculate. Our only context is N3, and until we have the N4 rules in hand the only takeaway from the video is that heavy armor needs to be protected from infowar -- something that was always intended.
Sure, but for certain units this is either impossible or unfeasible to achieve. There is no way to defend Sun Tze from this in either Vanilla or ISS, the Guijia LT needed more encouragement to see the table, not this which has basically doomed them from ever being remotely viable. How is a Vanilla Pan-O player expected to protect Joan from this or an ASS player supposed to protect Achilles? There is no real positive aspect to this change. Really it's just making list building more constrained and dooming certain units and profiles from ever being even remotely viable. Like you singled out earlier, TAG LTs are particularly vulnerable and did not need to be further kicked in the guts by this. You should not be getting so royally punished like this for wanting to take a Zuyong LT in vanilla. I should not open up the app builder and basically be forced to concede, "Well fuck, guess I have to take the Dao Ying again". There is no world in which that is a good thing for the game, we want more viable profiles and options not less as it allows players to remain creative and keeps the game a fresher experience.
