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N4 Changes

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. darthchapswag

    darthchapswag Shandian Strike Team

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    Please don't feed my anxiety :sweat_smile:

    I wouldn't say there's much likelihood of that. The denesting of CH skills seems to be twofold: Simplifying naming conventions/presentation and granularisation of Hidden Deployment, Marker State, and Mimetism mod combinations.

    Removing Stealth from the combination of standard camo (marker state, stealth, and mimetism -3), on any unit, isn't justifiable thematically. Mechanically it would only be a direct nerf rather than opening interesting options, especially to hackable units.

    Although CB have made... questionable decisions with regards to YJ HI design in the past so best not give them any ideas! :joy:
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't actually cut it for me. That might be the hottest shit for you (though I didn't know you played White Banner), but for me after testing it, the Tian Gou very rarely gets to do anything and acts like an area denial tool which it is capable of doing in vanilla as well.

    Everything gets better when put into a Fireteam, but the list itself may get worse for it, and after testing I haven't found enough in White Banner that I can't do in ISS, IA or vanilla and have more fun and more unique combos at the same time.

    So I'll be waiting for N4 White Banner because N3 White Banner has been boring and mediocre. There's not even anything new to complain about, it's that dull.
     
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  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The largest part of unnesting I've seen so far has been bookkeeping.
    Simply list everything the troop has, so you don't need to look up anything. Having it all in the profile for reference, beats looking up the second level of multi dependency for the Morat rule by a mile.
    There haven't been many troops who actually lost a nested Skill they had before.

    Wouldn't start worrying before Courage is a rarity among Martial Artists and Stealth isn't the norm for Camo Troops.
    This mostly opens up the mentioned Hidden Deployment on non TO troops and other combinations that weren't possible before.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hrm... I think the first place we might see Stealth get dropped is on Sphinx, Cutter, Uhlan and O-Yoroi, so that's the first thing I'll look for when we get new N4 TAG profiles
     
  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Might actually be a good incentive for i.e. the Uhlan that it does get Stealth while the Cutter does not.
    Then again the downside of the new system is that it's not exactly the easiest thing to visually compile. Combine that with the settled existing knowledge for many players and something like a random CC trop losing Stealth while almost ever other CC troop gets to keep it can get very confusing.
    I'd expect a new baseline, i.e. Martial Arts still always comes with Courage, but no longer is associated with Stealth. And then it expands into additional options from there rather then something like a messy 30/70 or 50/50 Stealth&Martial Arts vs Martial Arts without Stealth split.
     
    #325 Teslarod, Aug 20, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah... With Guard (probably) gone, there's a few profiles to keep an eye on that will probably have Martial Arts, but might be missing Stealth as well considering Guard didn't auto-include it.
     
  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should just wait until the new rules are out before we start saying this sucks and that's horrible. Hey i'm guilty too. But we really can't make informed decisions until we have all of the information.
     
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  8. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember something about CB wanting to tone down the amount of Stealth in the game, maybe in some video?
     
    #328 Benkei, Aug 20, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Why would they tone down stealth is beyond me.
    Stealth system in this game is quite good.
    Just make more things quite good instead of nerfing good to sub par.
     
  10. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    Tone down THE AMOUNT OF STEALTH, not the skill itself, as in less units have it
     
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If it's gone from martial arts though that means a lot of those damn knights with martial arts will no longer have it possibly. It also no longer comes with camo troops i guess. Hopefully it allows for some cheaper things but not having it can be a problem too.
     
  12. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    They could make it part of the standard NWI+shock immune package. Keep it away from those nasty HIs.
     
  13. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Since no one talked about it in here before - N3 YJ Vanilla is one of the best performing Faction or Sectorial in the hands of their top 33%.
    Faction Match - % of Wins
    1 Yu Jing 83.15%
    2 Starco. Free Company of the Star 81.01%
    3 ALEPH 79.91%
    4 Spiral Corps 79.72%
    5 Druze Bayram Security 79.31%
    6 TOTAL O-12 79.05%
    7 O-12 79.05%
    8 PanOceania 78.72%
    9 Dahshat Company 78.52%
    10 Nomads 78.44%
    11 Shasvastii Expeditionary Force 77.99%
    12 Japanese Secessionist Army 77.95%
    13 TOTAL NA2 77.93%
    14 Operations Subsection of the S.S.S. 77.92%
    15 Tartary Army Corps 77.85%
    16 TOTAL YJ 77.60%
    17 TOTAL Aleph 77.55%
    18 Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin 77.23%
    19 TOTAL Tohaa 77.20%
    20 Tohaa 77.20%
    21 Caledonian Highlander Army 77.12%
    22 Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor 76.64%
    23 Haqqislam 76.61%
    24 Hassassin Bahram 76.60%
    25 TOTAL Nomads 76.54%
    26 TOTAL CA 76.10%
    27 Combined Army 75.95%
    28 TOTAL Ariadna 75.83%
    29 Imperial Service 75.65%
    30 TOTAL Haqq 75.53%
    31 Neoterran Capitaline Army 75.52%
    32 Varuna Immediate Reaction Division 75.15%
    33 TOTAL PanO 74.59%
    34 Ariadna 74.45%
    35 Qapu Khalqi 74.42%
    36 Morat Aggression Force 74.32%
    37 Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne 74.24%
    38 Ikari Company 74.22%
    39 Invincible Army 73.91%
    40 Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska 73.68%
    41 Steel Phalanx 73.63%
    42 Military Orders 73.47%
    43 Ramah Taskforce 73.11%
    44 Onyx Contact Force 72.84%
    45 USAriadna Ranger Force 72.48%
    46 Shock Army of Acontecimento 71.60%
    47 Foreign Company 70.27%
    This stands in stark contrast to the mid 33% where YJ falls off hard to 3rd from last.
    Faction Match - % of Wins
    1 Foreign Company 63.33%
    2 Combined Army 52.82%
    3 Steel Phalanx 52.81%
    4 PanOceania 52.81%
    5 Qapu Khalqi 52.00%
    6 TOTAL Aleph 51.87%
    7 Tartary Army Corps 51.64%
    8 ALEPH 51.58%
    9 Starco. Free Company of the Star 51.58%
    10 Haqqislam 51.49%
    11 TOTAL Haqq 51.42%
    12 Operations Subsection of the S.S.S. 51.41%
    13 TOTAL Tohaa 51.40%
    14 Tohaa 51.40%
    15 Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor 51.30%
    16 TOTAL CA 51.27%
    17 Ramah Taskforce 51.25%
    18 Hassassin Bahram 51.06%
    19 Varuna Immediate Reaction Division 50.96%
    20 Morat Aggression Force 50.92%
    21 USAriadna Ranger Force 50.81%
    22 Shasvastii Expeditionary Force 50.72%
    23 TOTAL PanO 50.29%
    24 Shock Army of Acontecimento 50.29%
    25 TOTAL Ariadna 50.17%
    26 Caledonian Highlander Army 50.00%
    27 Onyx Contact Force 50.00%
    28 Invincible Army 49.83%
    29 Neoterran Capitaline Army 49.73%
    30 Japanese Secessionist Army 49.30%
    31 Military Orders 49.08%
    32 Ariadna 48.98%
    33 TOTAL NA2 48.93%
    34 Imperial Service 48.65%
    35 Dahshat Company 48.57%
    36 Jurisdictional Command of Tunguska 48.48%
    37 Ikari Company 48.31%
    38 Nomads 48.09%
    39 TOTAL YJ 47.93%
    40 TOTAL Nomads 47.86%
    41 Spiral Corps 45.74%
    42 Druze Bayram Security 45.56%
    43 Force de Réponse Rapide Merovingienne 45.26%
    44 Yu Jing 44.60%
    45 TOTAL O-12 43.70%
    46 O-12 43.70%
    47 Jurisdictional Command of Bakunin 43.20%

    Not quite sure how reliable the data is, but the sample size is as good as it gets for Infinity.
    Overall it looks like YJ is fairly hard to play well, but can keep up nicely if you know how.
     
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Given that it's a Vanilla faction and large part of leveraging your advantage requires a higher level of understanding for list construction and playing without the advantage of fire teams brute forcing shit that doesn't surprise me that they have a very skewed difference between the skill brackets.

    With that said I have checked in with a player before a tournament to make sure he hadn't missed Highly Classified in the mission pack before a tournament after seeing his submitted lists. The response I got was "I don't build for missions", I wouldn't be surprised the lower end of the win rate spectrum for factions is populated with people who don't really care and are just there to roll dice which may have an effect on the data.
     
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  15. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The meme-iness of this list is fun, and @Janzerker ’s good point that it needs anti-armor oomph is pretty easily solved. Drop two monks and a Chayi, add Smart Missile Launcher. Yes, it will take most of a turn, but whatever your target is will probably die in 5 DA shots. You’ll have an order or two left for coordinated repositioning, mine drops, and supp fire or recamo.

    If you’re going second, the SML is cheap bait.
     
  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    This. I knew many guys who would play that one time a year. It was Only time they got to play. Due to many of life's challenges, that was it for them. I considered playing more than twice a month a lot before the covid. I also know guys that only play for fun and refuse to play tournament games. No matter how good they are.
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    This guy gives me hope for the Hulang. If they gave the Hulang Hidden Deployment but no camo, I'd be okay with that.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't really recall anything in the Hulang's fluff really lending them to HD. They're a souped up Monk in power armour used as a high power value shock trooper to clear tunnels are other CQB nasty zones.

    Realistically they don't even make sense being in IA fluffwise.
     
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  19. Amusedbymuse

    Amusedbymuse Well-Known Member

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    And shaolin monks make no sense being both irregular and ex impetuous. Real life monks are some of the most obedient and disciplined people and in infinity they are just a bunch of blood crazed murderers that can't control themselves. On the other hand hulangs are described exactly this way but no, they can't have even frenzy for discount. CB logic is illogical.
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    BWAHAHA! They copy-pasted Asawira Regiment fluff into the Hulang Background tab in the Corvus Belli store!

    In either case, I seem to recall them being (another) penal regiment (different type of criminals than Wu Ming). Designed and headed by a former Shaolin special forces commander, but not staffed by Shaolin.

    TBH, Hulang just being dirt cheap would do it as well.
     
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